waimaks Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Alright, its a kinda long story so bare with me please, I'm gonna try and explain it all from square one so anyone that is better at this than me can 'diagnose' the thing. I brought a 1986 Vortex (XT) turbo 4x4 about a month or two back with a new member Keltik, a friend of mine. See related topics if you like, Ill probably go over them for the most part anyway. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53391 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53299 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52945 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53254 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53279 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53041 OK, I think that is the lot Now, since then the Vortex is in my possesion fully, I swapped Keltik his halve of the vortex for a honda....which has continued to run better and lap up all his beatings....and kinda tick me off at the same time.:-\ When we got the Vortex it was *running* so to speak, roughly, but it went well enough for us to think we'd give it a go. Now....It had been parked for approx 3 to 5 years before we found it... After some fresh gas, injector cleaner, new battery terminals (old ones nearly non exsistant), get the oil level back to where it belongs (about 3 times too much we guessed) After this and a bit of a thrashing, it came pretty right, and even made it into town, only to fail its inpection. This is where I took over from Keltik It was running well enough then, Nothing a good service and more thrashings couldn't fix I thought. Now I'm just gonna start throwing all the problems in the wind and hope you guys can make some sence.... Had been starting not too badly, required full throttle and a bit of cranking to get going. Had damp feeling exhaust gases when it was running, and some slight gunge/rust and bubbles in radiator....worrying eh:-\ Would splutter a bit after a run... the runs weren't long, so I was normally home by then anyway.... After a mild flushing of the cooling system... Lots and lots of cranking with foot in carpet.... No start.... All plugs fouled...They always are in this thing.... Clean Plugs...Still no start.... Tow start with Keltiks honda (wimpers) Runs on three or two cylinders...Badly ... Not impressive Back at the house, Still not starting right... Remove Spark lead from cylinder closest to the turbo (#3?) Starts with foot flat in the carpet, spluttering, then cleans up and runs well for 3, Better than it was anyway. Stop the car and put lead back, Starts with full throttle again, revs freely, doesn't miss much, bout one min later starts to splutter again, looses a cylinder or two. Repeat from remove spark lead if you want it to run again. This is about where I gave up on it this afternoon, I had guessed I had a mild headgasket problem, but thought it wouldn't be quite so severe without lots of oil-water-steam-overheating etc. Also...Most of the old gas should be sorta gone by now, but I realized I've been putting 91 in it and the owners manual states 96 only.... The timing hasn't been done either, I plan on doing it asap. I'm sure theres more things I should be putting in the equation, but I can't remember, and its big enough as it is. Probably un-related, but when it was running O-K for a few mins, going down the road, the fuel gauge dropped and the empty light came on at the same time as it splutterd and died.... I am sooo sorry for the longness....This has got me and Keltik stumped ANY COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS VERY WELCOME AND APPRECIATED!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Rogers Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 almost sounds headgasket related. got a compression tester? should see 120psi or better on cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Jim Maple Ridge Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 All of the fuel should have been removed. You can do this by running a +ve jumper to the blue wire going into the fuel pump, and taking the fuel line off at the motor. After the tank is pumped dry, put in a couple of gallons of fresh fuel and pump it through as well. After that, replace the fuel filter and put in fresh gas. The old fuel has turned to varsol and will barely burn if you lit it with a match. You can't just throw in fresh gas and hope to dilute it. The old fuel is heavier and just lays in the bottom of the tank. Every time the pump sucks some of that crap up, the motor will stumle and your plugs will foul and flood from the unburned fuel. Even if your motor has cracked heads or blown gaskets, it should still run fairly well until it warms up. Unless you have compression exiting through the rad, the fuel problem should be taken care of first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 Thanks! I'll work on getting the gas all proper before I get too far into it. Now, to find a compression tester aswell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Hey John ive got a comp tester - ill bring it over next weekend if ya need it. But to summarise all of this (because i want to); The engine runs considerably smoother and with more power when the number3 cylinder HT lead is NOT connected. I've been thinking its a timing fault but that doesnt explain how the problem goes away for 5 mins after running on 3 and then re-connecting that cylinder. As another confusing clue - when were running on 3, the XT's exhaust is a lovely shade of clear. As soon as we connect the #3 Lead, we get more black/brown smog than you can shake a stick at coming outta the exhaust. :-\ KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 12, 2006 Author Share Posted March 12, 2006 Behold the power, mystery and awesomeness of the almighty turbo-charged EA-82! Ahh too many vaccum hoses! Grarr, I like the ea-81 better..... Its too wet outside to bother trying anything right now.... I may have to take you up on that compression tester ben, Dad might have one round abouts, but if he don't its good to know you've got one handy. Ill keep this posted on what on earth it ends up doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 A slight up-date..... Started draining gas, was, clean clean clean, Got a bit impatient (i know, i know), and didn't do the WHOLE lot. Started up on what was left, ran O-K, well better than it has.... Took 'er for a spin, second radiator fan didn't kick in at all I believe, did boil out the overflow just a tad, but not as bad as it could have done. Theres still a steamy smell in the exhaust, and a few bubbles under the rad cap, but I reakon, with the electric fan goin wouldn't have got as hot. I'm gonna continue to attempt to check the timing, and do compression test this weekend anyway. Just to make sure it's all in check. Now, it still requires a full foot of throttle to get it started, hot or cold, and then it'll splutter for a few seconds, and settle into normal routines, only hesitates a little bit off idle. What could be causing this? The ECS light did flash once, for a millisecond type of thing. As usual, sorry for the long winded post, And all suggestions short of an overhaul are very welcome. Thanks all:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 btw we know weve got a nakkered coolant temp sensor and thats the only code the ECU throws at us. KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 check the MAF - if it's the hot wire type, pull it off and look at the wires inside of it, they are very hard to see because they are so thin. but it's really easy to look in there. if any are broken that will cause the issues you're having and the ECU will not throw any codes. more guesses: are the timing belts set dead on and tensioned properly? bad distributor. you say the CTS isn't plugged in, else i'd guess that to be at fault as well. maybe injector #3 has issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Timing belt is a good point - but its been running perfect up till now - and is running good again....somehow. Havnt checked the MAF yet but im sure John will give it a look and bad destributor seems to be a very likely problem. The CTS is plugged in and must work adequately as the choke system clicks on and off fine. It does throw the occasional ECL code but nothing consistent. Also we've noticed the engines been running very rich since we've owned it, whats the main culprits for that on an EA82-T? KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 I had a quick glance in-around mr disty yesterday, no noticeable play in the shaft etc. Just a bit up and down, That seems normal though. Also, keep in mind we think #3 might have very minor HG troubles, but thats not important right now... It was going this afternoon....Just the usual slight splutter-hard starting-and uber bouncy shocks. Also, which way would we adjust the timing for lower octane gas, Yea I'm cheap.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 It does throw the occasional ECL code but nothing consistent. you need to find out what code it's throwing. check the memory, it stores the codes. this is sounding more and more like CTS related. it takes 2 minutes to pull that connector off. actually a good test of the CTS connection is while the car is running to grab the connector and jiggle it on the CTS, if the connection is bad the engine will show it by changing pitch, idling, shut off, run good, etc...do something different as you're moving it around. CTS - have you pulled the connector off to have a look? the sensor itself is not the issue (they never fail), the corrossion and bad contacts at the connector are the issue. and it causes very intermittent issues at first....and CEL from time to time. replacing the sensor temporarily fixes the issue because a new one has clean contact points, but it returns if you don't address the dirty contacts in the connector as well, they will corrode the new sensor contacts. pull the connector off and let me know if it's clean or dirty. once the connector is corroded bad it's nearly impossible to get it all cleaned out as the corrossion gradually goes up further and even into the wiring and will always return. my permanent fix is here and comes highly recommended by me as i've seen this on a few occassions: http://www.xt6.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1767&highlight=coolant+temperature+sensor Distributor - the main failure point of the distributor you're looking for is the sensor....well, is this an MPFI EA82? if it is the distributor has the crank angle sensor built into the base of it, that's what the wiring is for associated with the distry. this sensor will fail...unfortunately testing for this is very complicated and i don't even want to start this discussion all over again as it resulted in about 5 pages worth of banter last time. but - easiest to swap in a good distributor as testing them can be ineffective in my experience. while we're talking about the disty, check the cap and rotor and make sure they haven't started coming apart internally. i've seen them torn apart inside with stuff hanging around, but somehow still create spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 Weeell, did a compression test, 140, 140, 130, 130. Or there abouts. So That seems kinda spot on I think. The thermoswitch thing is now shorted so the electric fan works. I have put a windscreen squirter on the bonnet that I stole off Keltiks honda, Seeing as there wasn't anywhere to put one, this one is kinda *custom*, works and looks ok though. Now, the real issue, the engine! Two distributor leads weren't quite as attached as they could have been. At the same time I scratched and cleaned the coolant sensor contacts as best I could. They woo! It started, no throttle needed, first crank perfectly! It seems to run pretty good now, still a little hesitation, but doesn't die after 4000rpm as much as it used to. It was kinda hard to tell how it would have gone on the road as we'd replaced the shocks with two bits of wood till I can get some replacements. And on top of all that, I reakon the only things its needing now to pass its inspection is the rust which won't take much, and the shocks, which leads to my next question.... These things....They are poked! Like some sorta pogo stick on wheels.... Now, someone in the original thread said they were RX struts-springs etc etc. And they really mess up the way the car sits. My question is this. What would be my cheapest option to get the thing to sit, and ride properly? Just new struts? RX or XT ones, Or new struts with RX or XT springs aswell. Keep in mind, RX's and XT's are uber rare, so junk yard bits are hard to find. I will have to ask how illegal would be to cut the RX springs to work better with some new XT struts. As usual, All opinions-suggestions welcome, And THANKS all who put info in to get it running right again, Lets hope it lasts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoomer Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Wow it sounds like the Vortex is just a Trouble Maker isn't it. Mines on its 3rd Head Gasket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 Ewwch, sorry to hear that... The vortex has had barely no use yet, so hasn't really proven itself....Heres hoping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoomer Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Well, Hopefully I'll get it back in working order for spring and summer... Sunroof and 5speed you can't ask for much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Heh, I speak to soon. The vortex *was* running ok. The problem has seemed to return. Was just idling fine, some hesitation,but I put that down to it being cold etc etc. And started sputtering, running on two or less cylinders, won't rev over 1000rpm at best, only just spluttering over, even at full throttle, the odd backfire through the manifold. To "recap" Compression- 140-140-130-130- An abnormal amount of sooty water from the exhaust, could, *could*, be condensation... Buuut, Some slight bubbling in the radiator, And could be using water slowly.. what the hell is going on with the thing?!? Two plugs are cleanish, the other two fouled. But this morning when it was running O-K They were all nearly perfect light brown.... Stupid car.... Water, where, other than head gaskets can coolant and combustion chamber get together? Intake manifold? Its got coolant in it doesn't it? And is pressurized because of that damned turbo? Lemme have it...:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Water, where, other than head gaskets can coolant and combustion chamber get together? Intake manifold? Its got coolant in it doesn't it? And is pressurized because of that damned turbo?Lemme have it...:-\ Do you know if the turbo is good? It could be in bad shape and spewing oil and coolant into the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Well, actually, no, Not for certain. The previous owner said he replaced it himself. And looking at the type of guy it wouldn't be surprizing that he messed something up without knowing. Any surefire way to tell? What can exactly fail in a turbo to give me this kinda stuff. It still boosts OK... Actually I noticed that sometimes while it was spluttering, when it died the boost guage would go to full and back down again. I just put it down to backfiring back up through the manifold? Hmhmm, What a fun car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Waay back when i popped the aluminium section of the intake pipe off it had a small coating of oil inside - i just assumed a blocked air filter or something was causing it to suck the stuff up from a crank case breather .....bah well we know the turbo isnt new or recondtioned because it still has the wreckers part number painted on the side of it. The previous owner did stress that there was "some little black box thing that looked like a relay but had oil in it" that needed replacing, of course this didnt help us much. (lol now that i think about it he couldve been talking about the engine ) Thats my 2 cents. KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Alright, so I put some gas it in and well, it goes again.... I thought cars refused to run when they ran out of gas, as opposed to running like crap. Stupid fuel injection. Damn I'm an idiot There is still a mother load of steam though... and after idling at operating temp for a for ages while I struggled to adjust the headlights there was still steam....So maybe not condensation.... Yes you can laugh now:horse: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Yes you can laugh now:horse: thats what you get for living on the wrong island..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 Norf sydz da best! Hehe, Kinda a Ali G movie quote But yes, Your Island seems to have all the cheap soobies. Jelousy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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