R2 Subaru Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Hi everyone, I am pretty new to the forum. I really like this forum it is very down home. you guys rock! I Just got a new (to me) '98 Impreza L. It's a 2.2 AT w/ 180K on it. It has oil leaks and torn CV boots up front but I got it for a song... Anyways, the guy I bought it from took it to firestone :-\ and had the t-stat replaced and the radiator flushed a few days before he sold it to me. He says that he drove it for a couple of days after the radiator flush and then he noticed that the water level was way low. He took it back to the guys at Firestone and they told him that the place where the radiator cap seats is a little corroded and the radiator cap is not seating properly. They filled it back up with liquid and he sold it to me. I drove it home and didn't have problem. That was two weeks ago. I haven't driven it much as I am waiting to hear back from his bank and get the title. Today I drove it across town (Beautiful San Francisco!) to my buddy's parking spot and it started SPEWING coolant. I stopped and looked and it seems like it is coming out of the overflow(?) tube on the top of the coolant reservoir and spraying all over the drivers side head and battery! i turned on the heater and limped the rest of the way to where the car is going to be for a month or so while I get everything all sorted out. The heater blew HOT the whole time and the car got hot as I revved the engine not while it idled. Also having the heater on full blast kept me mostly in the middle of the temp gauge. So questions: #1 is that an overflow tube? Coming out of the yellow cap on the coolant reservoir? If not what is it supposed to hook up to??? #2 The seat for the radiator cap (not the reservoir cap but the radiator cap) is corroded and it looks like it probably isn't creating a seal. Do I need to replace the whole radiator or can I just buy that plastic top piece. What about a tighter cap? #3 Does this sound like a blown head gasket? I have been reading alot about soobies the last couple of weeks and I have full blown headgasket paranoia! I was planning on doing the timing belt/cam seals/waterpump on my own but that would be pushing the limit of my backyard mechanic skill. I think a head gasket job is going to have to go to my mechanic...*sigh* Anyways thanks for any ideas. I love this forum! I have learned a bunch already. I started out at NASOIC and all I learned is that I can't afford an STI! and seriously where did you find the smiley its freaken' awesome:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Well the good news is that it is not a blown HG. What it sounds like to me (lets hope) is a bad radiator cap. Since you had heat, there was no air pocket in the cooling system, which is what usually happens with a blown HG. If you had no heat and the described conditions, then I would lean more to a HG issue. The "rust" around the filler neck can be cleaned up with scotc brite (and should have been done before the cooling system was serviced). The not so good news si that the T stat in the car really should be a subaru tstat and not a generic one. Knowing a chain repair place its whatever thier supplier had at the time. There is a tube coming from the radiator to the overflow tank. Its a closed system whne things work well (the cap) and will put coolant in the tank, and suck it back in as the car cools down. i am not sure what plastic your talking about, but you dont need a raditor, And welcome. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 The resavaur is NOT supposed to be full. There is a max line on the side of the plastic bottle. Drain it down to that line when it's cold. The radiator is supposed to be full. If the area inside the filler neck where the cap seals is crusty, clean it off with some steel wool, check to make sure the gasket on the springy part in the middle of the cap is good, and throw it back on. There is a phillips head plastic plug in the top of the radiator on the passenger side. Open it up, and coolant should come out when the engine is idleing. If it doesn't, pour more into the filler neck untill it does. Having heat when you rev it but not at idle usually means air bubbles, which bleeding with the phillips plug should solve. The 2.2 is unlikely to have blown head gaskets, unless heavily abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 Nipper you're the man! You've go tsome great posts! So where the cap seats is PLASTIC and it looks like its been eaten away. There is a lot of scale in the reservoir. The cap looks new but i don't think its seating right. I might take an xacto knife and try and clean it up a little. The radiator needs to be able to pressurize to about 30 psi to work correctly, right? Do you think that's what's going on? Am I just boiling over cause of the bad seal around the cap? Thanks for the reassurance on the HG, phew! :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 The raditor cap pressure pressure is 14psi max. Get a new cap, its cheap enough. I am still not sure what your saying about the "plastic". If you are talking about the white plastic tank with the yellow cap, by all means remove it and give it a good cleaning. They get dirty with age and no one cleans them (including me). I am not sure how the plastic is corroded. Do you have a digital camera? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 I am still not sure what your saying about the "plastic". If you are talking about the white plastic tank with the yellow cap, by all means remove it and give it a good cleaning. They get dirty with age and no one cleans them (including me). I am not sure how the plastic is corroded. Do you have a digital camera? nipper Where the radiator cap attaches to the radiator is all plastic. :-\ The top of the radiator is all black plastic! Do you think its not stock? it looks factory to me. I don't know if this a '98 weirdness or what. I have a camera... phone, not much good tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 A lot of legacy radiators have plastic tanks, where only the core is metal. The filler neck and hose fittings are all plastic. Use steel wool to clean it up, you'll just cut the snots out of it with the knife. Only the part inside where the cap seats matters. The hose on the yellow cap should only be venting if the resavaur is way overfilled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Where the radiator cap attaches to the radiator is all plastic. :-\ The top of the radiator is all black plastic! Do you think its not stock? it looks factory to me. I don't know if this a '98 weirdness or what. I have a camera... phone, not much good tonight. Ok that clears it up what he said nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 Ok, thanks for the reassurance. The plastic is pretty bad... I'll try and smooth it out with an SOS pad. Thanks an awful lot for the help. I am sure you will be hearing more from me. If you are ever in SF I owe you both a brewski! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 be careful i like Frisco and have freinds there .. better be good beer. Also even if it is shot, get a price on replacing the tank, also look at www.radiator.com to get an idea on price. Sometimes its cheaper to replace then to repair. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Ok so follow-up: After cleaning up the radiator cap seat point I did the Radiator bleed thing today. I couldn't find the bleeder screw that 91 Loyale was talking about so i just took the radiator cap off and idled the car. It kept burping and burping and I kept topping it off. After 8 minutes the radiator had had enough and began to overflow. I turned the car off and put the radiator cap back on. Then i turned the car back on and let it idle for five minutes or so. Then i revved it a bit and coolant started to come out of the reservoir. I put a make shift catch pail under there and continued to rev the engine a little more (nothing major got up to 3K and held it there for a few minutes) About a quart of fluid came out of the reservoir and then it seemed to mellow out. I let the car cool down for an hour or so and the level in the reservoir was about 3/4s of the way up between the high mark and the low mark. I left the make shift catch pail in the engine compartment and drove all around town. Went to the grocery store, zoomed up some major hills, accelerated hard to about 55 at one point. The temp needle stayed right in the middle except, on the hard acceleration, it did climb about 3/4's of the way up before I backed off the throttle. I got another pint or so in my pail and I feel like i am in pretty good shape. I do have some final questions though, please pardon my ignorance. #1 how much does the temp needle move during driving of healthy car? I think this may be my first aluminum block engine. Does that effect the gauge? Seeing it move up pretty fast during hard acceleration was a little disturbing. #2 How much does coolant expand when heated? I am going to read up on "How Coolant Systems Work" Would an air bubble be responsible for all that fluid coming out? is it because air expands much more then water/coolant when heated? that sounds like it makes sense. So maybe I still have a air bubble but at least the car is drive-able :-) maybe i will try a rinse and repeat next weekend after a little more studying. Thoughts? Reactions? Nipper, Ever been to the Zeitgeist? It's a pretty sweet beer garden in SF! They've got like a million beers on tap! I am sure we can find one that you will like! Thanks again for the help and encouragement guys. Next Up: Airbag Light! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 #1 something still isnt right. How many miles are on this again? #2 - Dont you have a coolant recover tank? The radiator need to suck that coolant back in, that may be while your running hot under load. You need to get yourself a tank, its important. I'm not following your expansion statement http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system7.htm nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 I definitely have a coolant recovery tank, it just kept overflowing. But i think it has stopped over flowing for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I definitely have a coolant recovery tank, it just kept overflowing. But i think it has stopped over flowing for now. Well the tank is supposed to be only 1/4 full when cold, and up to the hot line when...hot. Anything more then that its over filled. Did you get a new radiator cap? I think you need one. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 #1 something still isnt right. How many miles are on this again? #2 - Dont you have a coolant recover tank? The radiator need to suck that coolant back in, that may be while your running hot under load. You need to get yourself a tank, its important. I'm not following your expansion statement http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system7.htm nipper So i definitely have a coolant recovery tank I have been referring to it as the "reservoir". I wonder if my return line isn't a little plugged. so as I am over heating the coolant is coming out of the radiator but can't return causing the reservoir, or, coolant recovery tank to over flow? Well for now it is going to sit for a few days i will let you know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Ahh! maybe i just have way too much coolant in there!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 i bet that I have too much coolant and the thing over flows as it gets warm. plus weirdness with the cap and maybe a few air bubbles. but now i am confused about how to bled the system. i could not for the life of me find 91 loyales 'bleeder screw' Eventually the system will even itself out by overflowing the reservoir but how does that explain my engine getting too hot? Oh well its time for bed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 i bet that I have too much coolant and the thing over flows as it gets warm. plus weirdness with the cap and maybe a few air bubbles. but now i am confused about how to bled the system. i could not for the life of me find 91 loyales 'bleeder screw' Eventually the system will even itself out by overflowing the reservoir but how does that explain my engine getting too hot? Oh well its time for bed! a bad cap will do that. To keep the boiling temp down, the system must be able to hold pressure. The higher the pressure the higher the boiling point. Now since your cap is weak, the car releasing pressure too soon, and causeing the temp to spike. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Yeah I think you are right. The cap isn't working right. It makes sense to me after a good nights rest. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 So, update: I did change the cap with a nice one ($9.95) and burped it good. It seams to help but the car is still running hot and spiking on hard accelaration. while burping I took off the top rad hose and there was MAJOR crud build-up. It has almost eaten through the top rad hose! My plan right now is to put in a new t-stat replace the hoses and probably just get a new radiator. It seems pretty cheap and easy but I might try the vinnegar or baking soda flushes that have been described on the forum first. Nipper and everyone else, thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Let us know how things go! I was gonna suggest replacing rdiator and hoses,but you got there before.I am curious though-what do you consider spiking on temp,and when that happens do you notice any difference in engine performance or heat output?Do you have past maintenance records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 Let us know how things go! I was gonna suggest replacing rdiator and hoses,but you got there before.I am curious though-what do you consider spiking on temp,and when that happens do you notice any difference in engine performance or heat output?Do you have past maintenance records? Yeah I think I'll try and do the flush first because I bet the engine needs it anyways. As far as the spike goes, in normal driving the temp guage hangs out 5/8 up and will stay there if I take it easy or just let it idle. If I floor it it begins to climb fast and gets to the top of the dial like you would turn-up your radio! And then very slowly comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2 Subaru Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 So I just wanted to follow-up on this. I am a total novice on this stuff and I just wanted to rap up the thread a little bit incase someone down the road has the same thing going on and doesn't know too much about this stuff either. So sorry if all this seems painfully obvious. I followed nippers advice and got a new cap which helped but did not fix the problem. While I was doing my t-belt I took the radiator out and soaked it in vinegar for a couple nights and some goop came out but not to much. I took off all the hoses and the top hose was very corroded with white flakey powder. So I got new hoses from Subaru (which were actually kinda flimsy but looked nice) I got a new Subaru thermostat that was a little bigger then the one that was in there and I replaced the water pump. I put it all back together and then flushed the engine with water a couple of times with the themostat open. some nasty white powdery stuff came out that I assume hard water deposits. Then I filled up the radiator and engine with white vinnegar (red-line balsamic was too expensive ;^)) ran the car for 10-15 minutes like that with the heater on. Drained it and whole butt-load of crappy white gypsum-looking dust came out. Like maybe enough to fill up a sandwich baggy! I assume it is from using tap water in the radiator but who knows! Anyways ran water through it a couple more times and filled it up again. When I filled it up the engine was warm I and the heater was on (car was off) I took off the top hose and filled it all the way up waited a few minutes and filled it up again filled up the with radiator and put the hose back on then I topped of the radiator and filled up the reservoir. I used a 50/50 mix of Distilled water and radiator fluid. And just like that its fixed! The needle will not go past the 2/5 mark! No matter what I do it just hangs out right below the little wavy lines on the dial. The heater works fine too! Thanks Everybody! :headbang: :headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Then I filled up the radiator and engine with white vinnegar (red-line balsamic was too expensive) ran the car for 10-15 minutes like that with the heater on. White vinegar is perfect for that duty. Feed the car red vinigar and next it will want you to shift with your pinky out glad it all worked out, and yes that mineral was from using tap water. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Thanks for bringing us up to date and I'm glad you were able to get your dilema fixed.I would like to add that one of the best maintenance items a person can keep up on in an aluminum engine is fresh antifreeze,well any engine for that matter.I've seen so many engines run for years on the same antifreeze,not only does it clog a radiator but it will clog your heater core also affecting everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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