Woof er um ers

[nipper]

Ok its not too often im clueless, so here i am be nice to me....

Subwoofers.

I dont have a clue.

 

I bought a new pioneer DEHP5900IB head unit. If i turn the base up too far, my new OE speakers get pissed off. The new unit seems to lack some power, so i cant blast the doors off the car anymore.

 

The subaru subwoofer, how does it work (i know how speakers work). The head unit has outputs for a rear amp, a front amp, and a subwoofer output. Where does the OE subwoofer connect, and how does it get its signal. Is the speaker powered?

 

Blu is a 1997 OBW, and on long trips i tend to use every inch of space he has on the inside. i also dont want to go the way of huge speakers and god awful enclosures.

 

Also how do i increas power without spending a rediculous amount of money.

 

so in other words..... HELP!

 

 

nipper

[WoodsWagon]

The OEM sub that goes in under the passenger seat.

The wiring harness has a female plug and a male plug to match what goes into the back of the stock radio. You plug it into the radio, then plug the origional plug into the Sub harness. There's then power and line level audio wires that run down the center console and to the sub. Easy bolt in install. $185 to buy the stock sub new.

[Hodaka Rider]

Turn your bass and treble controls to 0, then turn up the volume.

Really, I have never heard a stereo where turning up the bass or treble really improved the sound at all. It will, however, increase distortion. Distortion is what kills speakers. Do you really want to kill your new OE speakers? Thought not. Also, speakers need a certain number of hours to break in. After this break in period, the bass will usually increase, and the speakers will sound less harsh.

[nipper]

speakers are several months old, so they are broken in.

 

I reset the "equilizer" so that it stradles the zero line my one or two (er um ... thingies ?) decibles

 

ok stop snickering. thingies is a more then adequit technical term.

 

hehehe

 

nipper

[86ruguy]

Ok its not too often im clueless, so here i am be nice to me....

Subwoofers.

I dont have a clue.

 

I bought a new pioneer DEHP5900IB head unit. If i turn the base up too far, my new OE speakers get pissed off. The new unit seems to lack some power, so i cant blast the doors off the car anymore.

 

The subaru subwoofer, how does it work (i know how speakers work). The head unit has outputs for a rear amp, a front amp, and a subwoofer output. Where does the OE subwoofer connect, and how does it get its signal. Is the speaker powered?

 

Blu is a 1997 OBW, and on long trips i tend to use every inch of space he has on the inside. i also dont want to go the way of huge speakers and god awful enclosures.

 

Also how do i increas power without spending a rediculous amount of money.

 

so in other words..... HELP!

 

 

nipper

 

 

OK, first Q.....Did you ride have the factory stereo in it still?

 

Second....Why did you replace other deck(factory or not doesn't matter with this Q)

 

Third...Did you have a a DECK to FACTORY HARNESS adapter?

 

Fourth... Are you sure you got the POSITIVE and NEGATIVE connections correct for ALL OF THE SPEAKERS? (I ask because if the speakers are not connected the same (pos. and Neg.) they will COUNTER ACT one another.

 

LIKE THIS......

 

good signal......

 

thump)))))))

thump)))))))

thump)))))))

thump))))))) ....the speakers are all sending the same signal

 

 

BAD SIGNAL.....

 

 

thump)))))))

thump(((((((

thump(((((((

thump))))))).....the center two speaker signals are inverted

[nipper]

OK, first Q.....Did you ride have the factory stereo in it still?

 

Second....Why did you replace other deck(factory or not doesn't matter with this Q)

 

Third...Did you have a a DECK to FACTORY HARNESS adapter?

 

Fourth... Are you sure you got the POSITIVE and NEGATIVE connections correct for ALL OF THE SPEAKERS? (I ask because if the speakers are not connected the same (pos. and Neg.) they will COUNTER ACT one another.

 

 

1- No i put my old pioneer in the car from the totaled legacy

2- The cd player aparently didnt survive the impact (it makes wierd noises and its not from my music tastes :-p ) and i wanted an integrated ipod controller

3- It was a direct plug in from the old wirierng which was fine

4- never touched them, they are all as they should be (that much i can do right).

 

nipper

[86ruguy]

Okay, i went to the pioneer electronics website. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069880_338744290_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_V3_ProductDetailsComponent

 

 

Something i noticed is that the new deck has 3(three) loudness settings(this is basically the new version of BASS BOOST) if the LOUDNESS is not on your stereo will sound like Fudge in a bucket. I'm guessing that since you mentioned that you like to turn up the bass that you also like to turn up the volume. If this is so the loudness not being on will make a huge difference.:-\

[Hodaka Rider]

Loudness contours are designed for listening at low volume levels. Using the loudness settings at higher volume levels will cause the forementioned distortion. (most stereo manuals tell you this - or at least the facty that the loudness setting is designed to enhance sound at low volume levels).

I'm sorry I don't have anything to add on the factory subwoofer issue, though.

[nipper]

Loudness settings i thought cut themselves out as the volume went up.

 

nipper

[slunk33]

There is the possibility you are running too much bass to the OE speakers. Without a proper crossover, the radio will send the highs and the lows to the speakers. If the speaker is not capable of handling the lows, you will get distortion. I remember someone telling me of a way to implement a cheap crossover by adding a capacitor to the positive terminal of the speaker, but I do not recall the correct specs on the capacitor. It was just a small part from my local radio shack that cut the lows from reaching the speakers. Otherwise, you can spend $50-100 on crossovers.

 

Anyone else have info on that setup?

[Hodaka Rider]

Loudness settings i thought cut themselves out as the volume went up.

 

nipper

Maybe on some stereos, not all though.

[Hondasucks]

Crutchfield sells "Bass Blockers" which just cut off anything below a certain frequency, I had a pair in my old Subaru, ran me $14+ shipping for a pair, I'd get the ones that cut off at 60 or 80 Hz, anything lower than that you're really not going to get out of stock speakers, and if you're planning on adding an aftermarket subwoofer later, that will be about the upper cutoff you'd want for the sub anyway. I have mine set at 80 Hz I think (My amp has an adjustable low-pass filter). Check your manual though, my old Pioneer Premier DEH-P410 had a subwoofer output, and when you had the sub turned on in the settings on the deck, it cut everything below 80 Hz out of the other outputs.

[nipper]

Crutchfield sells "Bass Blockers" which just cut off anything below a certain frequency, I had a pair in my old Subaru, ran me $14+ shipping for a pair, I'd get the ones that cut off at 60 or 80 Hz, anything lower than that you're really not going to get out of stock speakers, and if you're planning on adding an aftermarket subwoofer later, that will be about the upper cutoff you'd want for the sub anyway. I have mine set at 80 Hz I think (My amp has an adjustable low-pass filter). Check your manual though, my old Pioneer Premier DEH-P410 had a subwoofer output, and when you had the sub turned on in the settings on the deck, it cut everything below 80 Hz out of the other outputs.

 

 

oo thats good to know. I am leaning towards the subaru sub woofer, as im still pricing things out.

 

nipper

[nipper]

Ok a few updates.

 

The head unit has an adjustable high pass filter. That took care of the base distortion.

 

The new radio is 30 watts less power then the old one (that explains a few things).

 

I think I am going to get his eventually

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069933_369846773,00.html

 

Right now I am going to get the subaru subwoofer.

 

Now If i do that how would things wire in? Is it as simple as just moving the 4 speakers to the amp and let the powered subwoofer use the factory wiring?

 

Also in an OBW, where would I mount the amp (under a seat or will it get too hot, or the spare tire well.... or ?)

 

nipper

[Kilroy]

You need to mate your speaker components (including the subwoofer) to amplifiers that will provide the appropriate power to keep them within their RMS range. You will be running your 4 speakers to the Pioneer amplifier, so make sure that the Subaru subwoofer is going to get enough power from the head unit's amplifier. You can mount the Pioneer amplifier beneath your passenger side seat, but before you do that have somebody sit in the seat and check your clearance. If you have a few inches of clearance remaining between the bottom of the seat and the top of the amplifier, you may want to consider mounting the amplifier on a riser to give it a little bit of airflow beneath it. Rubber grommits make a great mounting surface and ensure that you aren't grounding against the vehicle's body (in this case you will have carpeting there, I am sure) and dampens the vehicle's vibration being transferred to the amplifier.

 

I'm not sure about your OBW, but with my Legacy Wagon I am seriously considering mounting my subwoofer in the spare tire well. You can mount your subwoofer on the bottom side of some MDF and put a steel grille (not the cheapo grilles that come with speakers, real expanded metal grille) over the subwoofer, then put your carpetting back over the subwoofer. This will allow you to use the space above your subwoofer without the worries of damaging it. Be sure to check the subwoofer on a regular basis for any dirt/debris that may have fallen into the cone. This is, of course, subject to the spare tire well allowing you enough space to mount the subwoofer. Infinity makes a line of low profile subwoofers that really help in limited space enclosures.

[nipper]

Thank You, that just answered alot of questions. The amp is the same mfg as the head unit, to make my life easier.

The head unit puts out 20 watts per channel, and it looks like the subaru is powered, so i dont think that will be an issue.

Wiring: They show (of course at extra cost) a specific cable with two 30 amp fuses in parallel to feed the power. Any idea what gauge wire this should be?

 

thanks

[mnwolftrack]

Though I am not totally familiar with the subaru stereo system, I can say that harness manufacturers usually do not account for OEM subwoofers since they are typically only an optional feature. Most of the time, when you swap in an aftermarket deck into a system that has an OEM sub, you are "on your own" with regards to figuring out the wiring and getting power to it and audio. OEM subs are often weak too, but they usually come with their own amp (or there is an external OEM amp buried somewhere in the car).

 

Aftermarket head units are typically very weak, and whatever power they give (such as 45x4) is peak power and is not really representative of true power. An external amplifier (such as an alpine 4 channel 45x4) will blow a head unit rated at 45x4 out of the water.

 

Aftermarket head units will also typically not account for the filtering capability of an OEM system that was designed with a sub, so you would either have to have a control on the deck, an equalizer, or install capacitors right at the speakers so that each speaker is only playing the frequencies it's capable of (better sound). You don't want your tweaters playing base, and you don't want your bass playing high frequency stuff.

 

What it likely comes down to is the aftermarket head unit is not running the sub, and the bass is trying to come from your regular speakers and they are distorting because they don't have enough power (weak head unit power) and probably shouldn't be playing low bass anyway.

[nipper]

So your suggesting getting the power amp first?

 

nipper

[charm]

I think the thing to do is to look at the system as a whole. If you were swapping out an auto tranny for a manual, you wouldn't first add the clutch and then a little while later add the tranny.

 

I think where the confusion comes in is that factory subs were not designed to be used with aftermarket radios and vice versa. Additionally, if you're after sound quality, factory Subaru speakers are not the way to go. My Infinities cost less then the factory speakers in my friends new Audi, but they sound much nicer and are much much better built. I have a subwoofer with a fiberglass enclosure that I built, someday I'll finish it, molded into the side of the back of my Impreza wagon between on the strut tower and the access to the taillight bulbs...it's removable, just not finished. I have an amp for the sub under the driver's seat and an amp for the front speakers under the passenger seat. The rear speakers don't add much to sound quality so they're factory and powered by my aftermarket radio.

 

As a whole system, things sound great, but they were all purchased with intent. I knew that mixing factory and aftermarket doesn't usually work, and I knew that I didn't like the sound or functionality of the stock stereo. If you're looking for better sound quality, move away from factory pieces, if you're looking for a more facotry look, move away from the aftermarket, but you need to choose one.

[nipper]

well i have :-p

 

I am looking the pioneer head, and am looking at the pioneer amplifier. One thing i have learned from my home unit, is that speaker quality is really up to the ear of the beholder. If I over power the (new) factory speakers, ill cross the road when i get to it. I would rather have to replace the speakers (which i got for a good price from Jamie) instead of mis matching the other way around.

I wish it wasnt winter, I would get the amp and work from there. I have in the past bought speakers in a store that sounded fine, and put them in the car and i did not like them. I would rather get the links in the chain connected before i commit to speakers. At least this way I can return them the next day if I dont like them, instead of three months later after I get everything else hooked up.

 

I need to study my car and sub woofer sizes to see what will work. How small a subwoofer can one go? I just want to richen the sound, not set off the neighbors car alarm.

 

Thanks, keep the thoughts coming.

 

nipper

[charm]

I'll try to remember to take some pics of my sub enclosure this evening...hopefully it's visible through all of my 'stuff.'

 

I'm running a 10" sub and it's scalable. I don't think I could set off a car alarm, well, maybe a really sensitive one, but it can get pretty boomy. It also turns down nicely and just richens the sound. I think an 8" sub would also sound fine and be even easier to get into the car. Someday I'll finish my enclosure and it'll look really great.

 

You're right about audio, it's in the ear of beholder. You make a good guess at the store and cross your fingers it'll sound good in that tiny environment we call a car.

[nipper]

 

You're right about audio, it's in the ear of beholder. You make a good guess at the store and cross your fingers it'll sound good in that tiny environment we call a car.

 

What is really misleading is how they are displayed. In a store, the speakers are mnounted in wood panels. Albeit its pressword, but its still wood. You get sound bounced back at you, some absorbed, but it is generally warmer. Take the same speakers and put them in a tin can (a car), you dont get the same sound.

I tend to avoide speakers that sound really alive or pitchy in stores, since i know they will be even worse in the car.

 

I would like to see the pic

 

nipper

[mnwolftrack]

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I got a bit of a snow delay, then I couldn't get to this website (it frequently times out on me). Anyway, I am not real clear on what system you actually have, specifically, whether you already have an OEM sub or were just thinking about one.

 

If you don't already have the OEM sub, my recommendation would be to NOT pursue getting one. It would be less hassle installing aftermarket. The sound quality should be a lot better too. There are several options in putting an aftermarket sub in the car. You can do a "bazooka" tube that can be strapped or secured in the back but becomes easily removable and unplug-able if/when you need to haul stuff. Bazooka's are nice and I ran one for several years, and they can be purchased with a built in amp and band filter so all you have to do is hook up power and audio.

 

An alternative is to build a sub box in the back, but I'm guessing you aren't looking for window-shattering power. Other options include installing a sub in the side wall of the cargo area, in the center console, or under one of the seats (even the rear seat in some vehicles).

 

Subs can be purchased as small as 8", and while they all require some sort of enclosure, some are designed for smaller enclosures and some for others.

 

I completely agree about sound quality in the store vs. price vs. what it actually sounds like in the car. Price does not guarantee something will sound good in your car, nor is the sound in the store necessarily representative of what you'll hear in the car (which is when a multi-band (6 or more) equalizer is very handy because you can change the sound).

 

Another option is 6x9 speakers. These are "normal" speakers but can actually provide some pretty good bass. 6x9 speakers can often play the full range of sound because they usually have a built in tweater and seperate woofer.

 

Lastly, if you are thinking of installing an external amplifer to your OEM speakers, you will need to determine the wattage of the OEM's before doing so. Chances are, the OEM speakers aren't designed to handle much power.

 

It's also possible the OEM head unit was running an OEM external amplifier (or perhaps had a more robust amplifer built in to it). I have not examined the OEM sound system though, so I can't really answer that part of it other than just suggest it. Perhaps someone else can chime in.

[cookie]

I've got a couple of used amps in the garage. I wonder if it would be worth shipping an old amp, they are kind of heavy. these have no directions but I believe the hookup is pretty standard.

[nipper]

Ok so i will get the pioneer amp and skip the subwoofer for now. Then next i would look to upgrade the door speakers if i fin them lacking. I am not looking to boost to alot of power, but i have a feeling that the 40 watts per channel out of the amp is more honest then the 20 watts out of the head unit

I know the wattage is a numbers game, but i was taught (and thats how i buy my home units) is that if they are saying there is alot of power, the unit should weigh a ton. My old 55 watt pioneer head weighs the same as the 20 watt head unit (both per channel).

 

nipper