Passenger cylinders run hotter. Normal?

[85glsw]

'85 EA82, 1.8, GL SW

 

To touch, the passenger side cylinders run hotter. Normal?

 

Coolant's been replaced recently, but not by me. So I don't know what kind of obstructions there may or may not be.

[nipper]

'85 EA82, 1.8, GL SW

 

To touch, the passenger side cylinders run hotter. Normal?

 

Coolant's been replaced recently, but not by me. So I don't know what kind of obstructions there may or may not be.

 

they shouldnt.

 

How are you determening this.

 

nipper

[85glsw]

By touch.

[nipper]

By touch.

 

ouch, your a brave person.

 

Thats not an accurate way of telling.

 

Does the car run hot?

Does the car ping?

When was the last time the timing belt was done ( I think this has a belt, its been a while)

Last time the car had a tune-up?

 

nipper

[85glsw]

Belts: less than 10k. (Previous owner.)

 

Temperature gauge is total bull ************. It acts completely normal with the thermostat in or out. (It's out for the summer.) Others with the same car have confirmed for me the same junk. Evidently the sending unit is in a not so smart place?

 

Air bubbles rise, right? I've gotten a few out by squeezing the hoses. Otherwise, I'd bet a few bucks that a gallon and a half would come out were I to drain the whole thing.

 

No pinging.

 

Electrical: plugs, cap, rotor. Recent.

 

Fuel filter. A few months.

 

Radiator fluid change. Recent. Probably not flushed. Fins on radiator: some bent. Probably never touched. Has AC. Doesn't work.

 

Oil change. Recent.

 

Air filter. Recent.

 

Carb looks nearly new. Float slightly rich, because auto choke doesn't work. (Better slightly lean, no? Otherwise could burn out valves.) I'm at 8200 feet, so I adjusted it.

 

Distributor: well advanced.

 

Pollution control devices. Don't make me laugh. I assume everything is blocked. I cancelled out whatever seemed to work better that way, but removed nothing. Advance on the distributor directly to the carburator. Secondary catalytic converter (back) removed. Concerned that if I remove the front, which surely is well expanded by now, it will be bad for the valves.

[nipper]

well if you think the factory gauge is NG, then replace it with a good aftermarket gauge.

 

If you think you have an airbubble, its really simple to get rid of. Never fill a radiator cold and think its filled. With the cap off, let the car run and warm up till the thermostat opens, then top off the cooling system. Drive it arouns the block (with the cap on), let it cool off and check the level again, and youll be done.

 

Have you replaced the radiator cap?

 

Just out of curiosity what condition is the radiator in externally?

nipper

[ccrinc]

Over the years, we've noticed that carb and spfi pistons will score more on the right bank than the left bank. (Turbos just are nasty all over.) No real idea why, as far as I know. Possibly less oil circulation on that side. But, it's not just your imagination. We've seen it up close and personal.

In fact, we recently bought the last spfi right side pistons in the USA from SOA. (We seem to do that a lot :-\ )

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

[nipper]

Could it be possible that the force of the pistons are closer to the top on the pass side, while they are closer to the bottom on the drivers side? I wonder it the drivers side bottom is the same temp as the passenger side top (that would make sense). I dont remeber where the offset of the flame front starts on these engines. One usually hopes for it to be near the spark plug location, but usually its slightly offset and follows the sirection of the piston via the rotational direction of the crank.

 

I have a thermocouple to read that, but dont have an e82 handy.

 

When i had a VW beetle, there was a cyl head gauge that mounted under the sprak plug, one on one side, the 2nd on the other, to track the two individual heads.

 

nipper

[daeron]

My understanding was that the coolant flow through the engine went driver side first, then over the tranny hump, then into the passenger side in the rear and out the passenger side in the front at the thermostat housing. that being the case, IF one cylinder head were to be warmer than the other, it would be the passenger side cylinder head. Am I wrong?

 

BTW Harbor frieght has two point-and-shoot, non contact thermometers in their catalog.. one is good, and is 40 bucks, the other is a cheapie and is like 15 or 20. A worthy addition to a toolbox, if you are so inclined.

[85glsw]

well if you think the factory gauge is NG, then replace it with a good aftermarket gauge.

 

If you think you have an airbubble, its really simple to get rid of. Never fill a radiator cold and think its filled. With the cap off, let the car run and warm up till the thermostat opens, then top off the cooling system. Drive it arouns the block (with the cap on), let it cool off and check the level again, and youll be done.

 

Have you replaced the radiator cap?

 

Just out of curiosity what condition is the radiator in externally?

nipper

 

How could a factory gauge be bad when it goes to the middle like normal, and then when the thermostat is out, stay in the bottom of the operating range and go up a tiny bit on hills? I'm really perplexed.

 

Thanks for the radiator filling advice. That's the way I've always done it, but since I"m self taught, I never had any confirmation. But I've never filled this radiator.

 

No, I haven't replaced the cap, but it's kind of on the list, since it's a 13 lb cap.

 

External condition of the radiator is a little hard for me to see. I don't think it's good. So, I'm tempted to pull it. The strange thing though, is because of the state of the gauge, I don't really know if I'm overheating any more or not. I'm as blind as I was in my '69 Cutlass. And here I don't even have the overheating idiot light.

 

How can I tell if I'm overheating or not? Even if I were to drain the system and pull the sending unit, would it be worth my while to put it in water with an electrical tester connected and see if it works? And then the whole thing seems crazy, because I might not be overheating at all. If you see my dilemma.

[85glsw]

My understanding was that the coolant flow through the engine went driver side first, then over the tranny hump, then into the passenger side in the rear and out the passenger side in the front at the thermostat housing. that being the case, IF one cylinder head were to be warmer than the other, it would be the passenger side cylinder head. Am I wrong?

 

BTW Harbor frieght has two point-and-shoot, non contact thermometers in their catalog.. one is good, and is 40 bucks, the other is a cheapie and is like 15 or 20. A worthy addition to a toolbox, if you are so inclined.

 

Could you explain the point and shoot thermometer? I don't understand the tool. I hate to buy cheap tools, but for a very occassional use, do you think that the cheap one is worth getting? Sounds like that could save me from pulling the radiator and cleaning it and flushing it, when it might not need it.

[85glsw]

Over the years, we've noticed that carb and spfi pistons will score more on the right bank than the left bank. (Turbos just are nasty all over.) No real idea why, as far as I know. Possibly less oil circulation on that side. But, it's not just your imagination. We've seen it up close and personal.

In fact, we recently bought the last spfi right side pistons in the USA from SOA. (We seem to do that a lot :-\ )

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

 

That could be it. I drove around on three cylinders for a while, with a hole in an exhaust valve on that side. The cylinder was full of gasoline and carbon when the mechanic looked at it with his scope. Probably shouldn't have done the work. It was too hot to look for another car.

[daeron]

Could you explain the point and shoot thermometer? I don't understand the tool. I hate to buy cheap tools, but for a very occassional use, do you think that the cheap one is worth getting? Sounds like that could save me from pulling the radiator and cleaning it and flushing it, when it might not need it.

Clicky for the Harbor Freight webpage searching "thermometer" for several examples varying in price from $10 to $40. They are imported chinese stuffs, and man, I agree. The tools that you grab day to day should be top notch. I endeavor to keep this spirit alive as much as possible throughout the decade of my early twenties, but sometimes on a budget I have to get harbor freight pliers... BUT whatever, like you said, the occassional use stuff is what the place is GREAT for. It is not usually poorly made as in, inconsistent or inaccurately made.. it just breaks after less use than one would hope. NOT for professional use, but.. spring compressors, infrared thermometers, whatever.. it is worth it. If you can find a store near you, go by the place and check it out. If you run for the hills, so be it.. but it is a GREAT middle ground.

 

Have you ever pulled a radiator out of a subaru? IMO it isnt that big a deal; once the fans are off it is only four bolts, two hoses (unless its an automatic, then two more trans fluid hoses) a drainplug and the overflow hose. Once you do that, you can run some water through it with a garden hose and see how much comes out, and get a good visual inspection of the coils, and if needs be soak it with degreaser and blast it out.

 

I have no central AC, and live in south Florida. Nine months out of the year my window unit is on. I have a cat, and I smoke inside; so the thing gets really grungy dirty after several months. I have learned a GREAT deal about the inefficiency of a dirty coil, and how simple it is to greatly restore that efficiency with some high-powered concentrated degreaser.

 

You can also get a bright light and shine it through from one side and see how much comes through. Remember, the AC condenser (if you have one) could also be covered in crud and road grime, and it would block air flow over a brand new radiator. You could also spray both rad and condenser down with degreaser and blast them out with a garden hose while they are still mounted in the vehicle.. I would recommend trying to spray them down with a hose from the INSIDE of the engine bay, outwards, if you do try this. Better NOT to soak the engine if you can avoid it... Although, if you wanted to GUNK the engine down I suppose its a decent opportunity... just cover up the carb and disty, etc..

 

If you find any fin rot (where you touch the fins and they just flake away) its not a good thing. Flake away all that you can and avoid letting it clog up the coils. do this before cleaning it.

 

And finally, honestly, it sounds like your gauge is probably working OK to me. I talk alot about possible gauge inaccuracy... but REALLY, it is not as common to actually SEE it as it gets thrown around. If you get the thermometer from HF, then we will know for sure. The temp gauges on these cars (on any car, really) may have its own "personality" and no two cars may be the exact same.. BUT once you get to know a car you can usually tell if the temperature gauge is working right. It is just a matter of re-defining "right" in YOUR head. it isn't the gauge thats off, its the operator. :-p

 

Also, these are all just suggestions and pointers; I want to add that it doesn't sound like you are REALLY having an awful heat issue, more of a "quirk," am I right? If that is the case, then the last thing I want to tell you is that you should go to all this work just to tune it up. It never hurts, though.

[85glsw]

Clicky for the Harbor Freight webpage searching "thermometer" for several examples varying in price from $10 to $40. They are imported chinese stuffs, and man, I agree. The tools that you grab day to day should be top notch. I endeavor to keep this spirit alive as much as possible throughout the decade of my early twenties, but sometimes on a budget I have to get harbor freight pliers... BUT whatever, like you said, the occassional use stuff is what the place is GREAT for. It is not usually poorly made as in, inconsistent or inaccurately made.. it just breaks after less use than one would hope. NOT for professional use, but.. spring compressors, infrared thermometers, whatever.. it is worth it. If you can find a store near you, go by the place and check it out. If you run for the hills, so be it.. but it is a GREAT middle ground.

 

Have you ever pulled a radiator out of a subaru? IMO it isnt that big a deal; once the fans are off it is only four bolts, two hoses (unless its an automatic, then two more trans fluid hoses) a drainplug and the overflow hose. Once you do that, you can run some water through it with a garden hose and see how much comes out, and get a good visual inspection of the coils, and if needs be soak it with degreaser and blast it out.

 

I have no central AC, and live in south Florida. Nine months out of the year my window unit is on. I have a cat, and I smoke inside; so the thing gets really grungy dirty after several months. I have learned a GREAT deal about the inefficiency of a dirty coil, and how simple it is to greatly restore that efficiency with some high-powered concentrated degreaser.

 

You can also get a bright light and shine it through from one side and see how much comes through. Remember, the AC condenser (if you have one) could also be covered in crud and road grime, and it would block air flow over a brand new radiator. You could also spray both rad and condenser down with degreaser and blast them out with a garden hose while they are still mounted in the vehicle.. I would recommend trying to spray them down with a hose from the INSIDE of the engine bay, outwards, if you do try this. Better NOT to soak the engine if you can avoid it... Although, if you wanted to GUNK the engine down I suppose its a decent opportunity... just cover up the carb and disty, etc..

 

If you find any fin rot (where you touch the fins and they just flake away) its not a good thing. Flake away all that you can and avoid letting it clog up the coils. do this before cleaning it.

 

And finally, honestly, it sounds like your gauge is probably working OK to me. I talk alot about possible gauge inaccuracy... but REALLY, it is not as common to actually SEE it as it gets thrown around. If you get the thermometer from HF, then we will know for sure. The temp gauges on these cars (on any car, really) may have its own "personality" and no two cars may be the exact same.. BUT once you get to know a car you can usually tell if the temperature gauge is working right. It is just a matter of re-defining "right" in YOUR head. it isn't the gauge thats off, its the operator. :-p

 

Also, these are all just suggestions and pointers; I want to add that it doesn't sound like you are REALLY having an awful heat issue, more of a "quirk," am I right? If that is the case, then the last thing I want to tell you is that you should go to all this work just to tune it up. It never hurts, though.

 

Thanks for the tool link. I have another vehicle (with a 1980 Mercedes van motor) that blew the head gasket in the Sahara without the gauge ever getting very high (I watch temp gauges all the time), so I probably will invest in such a tool. (We were stuck over a month getting it back together.) An African mechanic told me it happens all the time, because of all the limestone in the water in Europe: it clogs the radiators. So they pull the radiators out, take them apart, and clean them thoroughly.

 

Pulling a radiator doesn't bother me. But this soob: how do you get it out without spraying coolant all over the place? (Turn the car upside down?) No engine block bolts to drain? Why didn't they just make a normal bottom tube that you pull out and the fluid goes in the pan? Sheesh! It goes in well water. Runs off into rivers. Dogs like to drink it. Japanese engineers....

 

I mentioned that cool laser temperature tool to my wife. She said, Now that it's happened twice to us, that an engine overheated without the temperature gauge going up, next time it will be something else.

 

Darn, she might be right.

[daeron]

I know all about mineral buildup in water; lots of lime etc in the well water here in south Florida too.

 

There should be a drain on your radiator, on the passenger side tank, most of the way down. No, it isn't going to drain 100% of the coolant, but it will be enough. I like to use cat litterboxes or old baking pans, set out side by side underneath the entire radiator crossmember, if I am worried about leaking out my coolant into the environment. (IE, if there is antifreeze in the radiator.)

 

Some people have a habit of taking any radiator that they either install or remove for cleaning, and tapping the drain bung for a proper draincock with a hose extension from it for just this reason. I haven't developed that much obsessive habit yet.

[Gloyale]

Pulling a radiator doesn't bother me. But this soob: how do you get it out without spraying coolant all over the place? (Turn the car upside down?) No engine block bolts to drain? Why didn't they just make a normal bottom tube that you pull out and the fluid goes in the pan? Sheesh! It goes in well water. Runs off into rivers. Dogs like to drink it. Japanese engineers....

 

 

There is a petcock(drain) in the botom passenger side corner of the radiator and there are drain bolts in the heads as well. The ones in the head are very tight ussually, and the one on the drivers side is fairly hard to access. But you really just need the radiator drain. Of course you could just put a big pan under the lower radiator hose and remove the hose at the radiator and it will drain into the pan.

 

Those Japanese engineers take environmental consequences of things much more seriously. You can't even drive a car with an engine with more than 60,000 miles there. And their Junkyards are much more like dismantling and recycling centers where everything is collected. Regulations on Shops are stringent and DIY work is very frowned upon if not all out illegal.

[85glsw]

I didn't think there'd be more than one petcock. I saw the one half way up the radiator on the passenger side, in the midst of so much stuff that fluid would be nearly impossible to capture, and I looked at the lower hose, with it's curve upwards, also creating a tricky situation. As for the drain bolts in the cylinder heads: thanks for the info. I didn't want to go hunting there.

 

I'm aware of the stringent regulations in Japan and in many other wealthy countries, as well as the fact that our cars do many decades more of unregulated service in other countries like Mexico and African countries. I don't like the fact that I am legally driving a polluting vehicle here in New Mexico. Unfortunately, even for me, so many decisions boil down to simple economics. In my observations, in this country, and in European countries, stringent regulations are not the ultimate answer. It creates a kind of black market (bypassing inspections and cars going to Africa where they pollute even more), and, ultimately, more and more people will ignore the government, which is very unfortunate when we are talking about pollution controls. And if you've been to the third world lately, you should know clearly where we're heading so far as pollution. Over regulating here would be just a drop in the global clean-up bucket, and fill the pockets of car "manufacturers," who, it seems, will be under China's pollution "regulations" while building their cars.