mikeamondo Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Hello all... My '90 Legacy, "Blubaru", (if you name them, they last longer... scientifically proven) very suddenly began running very rough today. The car is an AWD, auto, wagon... 141k miles and has been running pretty well lately. In fact, we took it loaded to the gills on a 60 mile interstate trip two days ago and he ran fine. So... it has a solid, obvious and consistent miss, causing it to idle rough and accelerate with about 50% of the power it should have. It is the same cold as it is warmed up and seems unaffected by throttle settings or selected gear. I ran codes with both black and green connectors. The black connectors coded 35 - Canister Purge Solenoid (which it has been coding for a long time) and 13 - Cam Angle Sensor. With the green connectors hooked up, only the Purge Solenoid showed. My first theroy is this: The timing belt has slipped a tooth (or a gear has stripped a tooth), throwing the car out of time and for a moment, tripping the cam angle sensor. With the belt once again turning the cam, albeit out of time, the car no longer codes the cam angle sensor, but runs like crap due to the miss-timing.... I then found this thread, which seems to lend credence to my therory: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=74169&highlight=Cam+angle+sensor So what do you guys think? Can I pull the front cover easily to check it out, without pulling the engine? Any ideas? --mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huck369 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Definitely no need to pull the motor to do the timing belt. and yes, it's easy to pull the two outer covers to check it out... But sounds more like a failing Cam sensor or crank sensor to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamondo Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 Can you test those sensors? How difficult are they to change out? Which should be first, pulling the cover to check the belt or testing the sensors? --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huck369 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Not sure about on the 90, but the later model EJ cam, and crank sensor are only about $20 from Subaru..., so I'd probably just replace it.... But it only takes a few minutes to pull the outer 2 t-belt covers, but chances are good you'll have trouble with the bolts in them...try to give them a "Quick" twist when breaking them loose, if you just slowly try to break them loose, you'll most likely twist out the recessed nuts in the back half of the cover.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 [...]141k miles and has been running pretty well lately.[...]So... it has a solid, obvious and consistent miss, causing it to idle rough and accelerate with about 50% of the power it should have. It is the same cold as it is warmed up and seems unaffected by throttle settings or selected gear. I ran codes with both black and green connectors. The black connectors coded 35 - Canister Purge Solenoid (which it has been coding for a long time) and 13 - Cam Angle Sensor. With the green connectors hooked up, only the Purge Solenoid showed.[..] You mentioned 141k miles, but didn't say when the t-belt had been last changed (along with tensioner, pullies?). It's certainly possible that the timing has slipped due to problems in that area. When cam (and crank) sensors start to go bad, they can throw codes intermittently, so the code not being consistent doesn't mean the part is okay. It's possible the ECU is "limping", depending only on crank sensor data for timing. For some insight into how the cam sensor and related parts function, see: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/Fuel.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/DirectIgnition.pdf (includes warning to disconnect injectors, not ignition wires, when doing cylinder-balance testing; you may want to do that to determine which cylinder(s) the problem lies with.) By the way, there are errors in the "DirectIgnition.pdf" info. In the "Ignition Coil Testing" section, the terminal numbers listed are reversed between the primary and secondary; however, the diagram is labeled correctly. 2.2 info including timing: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2SingleOverWin01.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2Liter.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamondo Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 Thanks for all the info! By the way... I just checked prices on both those sensors and found $188 for the cam angle and $279 for the crank angle.... can that be right? I could probably find an entire wrecked car for less! Due to business related time constraints, I think we are going to take the old boy to the shop instead of figuring this one out ourselves... but I'm going to print out the pdf files you've posted and take them along... it's not a Soob shop specifically, so any info I can pass on to these guys will help! --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huck369 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Sounds REALLY high...as I said, I've replaced them before on a later EJ22, and they were about $20....but the older ones have a pigtail coming off them, with a connector on the end, the newer ones, the harness plugs right into the sensor....but basically the same thing....might be able to rewire the conector to use the newer one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Thanks for all the info![...]You're welcome! Please do let us know what the final outcome is at the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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