ea82 lifter questions....

[LuvScooby]

Greetings to all! I am in need of advice. Recently bought an 88xt/dl with blown head gaskets...of course... I replaced the gaskets myself, but developed a severe case of lifter CLATTER!!! I have done several oil changes, tried thicker oil...thinner oil...additives, but nothing has cured it. I resealed the oil pump, and bought an aftermarket gauge, and I have loads of oil pressure. I took the lifters apart when I had the heads off, and I cleaned them really good. I soaked them in oil, but thats about it. They are not pumping up. I bought another set of lifters from Mizpah, but when I pulled the old ones out of the passenger side, they moved very freely, and I don't think they are bad. Is there a priming procedure that I need to perform on these lifters? I think all of my o-rings are in place between the head/cam carrier, although there are a couple of places where it looks like there are oil ports that have a very flat surface where no o-ring could possibly go. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow. I saw somewhere online while looking at remanned suby engines that some engines required ''pressurized oil primer'' performed before operation. Can anyone feed my brain on that one? Thanks in advance for any ideas!!

[daeron]

Well, you bought it with blown headgaskets, yet it developed HLA clatter when you fixed it? So it ran before, without making lifter noises?

 

The only O rings that should matter are the cam case o rings, one per side, and they should be replaced every time the engine is apart, with OEM brand only. Good news is, OEM brand is available thru thepartsbin.com for uber-cheap. The OEM ones are metal re inforced.

 

It sounds like you MAY have already known all that, but I had to make it abundantly clear from the get go.

 

I just went and re read the procedure in the FSM, and when the hla's are not supposed to be able to be depressed more than 0.5 mm when sitting in a cup full of oil. The book says

1. With adjuster in vertical position, push adjuster pivot quick and hard by hand. If Pivot is depressed more than 0.5 mm, then put adjuster in a container of light oil and move plunger up and down until the depression is less than 0.5 mm. 2. If pivot is depressed more than 0.5 mm even after repeating the above procedure, replace adjuster.

 

So, maybe you need to install the new HLAs after all; you said that they moved very freely, which sounds to me like more than 0.5mm, but maybe I am misinterpreting something.

 

http://ch601.org/engines.htm

 

Subaru EA82 parts 1 and 2. Its from the FSM for an 89 GL, but the engine is still the same.

[GeneralDisorder]

Did you make SURE the lifters went back into their same locations? If not you may have better luck just replacing them with the new ones.

 

GD

[idosubaru]

is the tapping on the driver or passengers side or is it more random and all over the engine? and did it tap before you replaced the head gaskets?

 

also - it's common for the HLA's to be noisey for a few miles after the engine is apart, takes them a bit to prime. have you driven it enough yet? i assume you have since you've added some additives and such.

 

all that stuff about priming and what not is bogus. just put them back in and run the vehicle. FSM states to replace them in the same spot like GD said, but i've mixed and matched many, many times and never had an issue. i doubt that's your problem either.

 

The only O rings that should matter are the cam case o rings, one per side, and they should be replaced every time the engine is apart, with OEM brand only.

 

this is important. did you replace these orings and did you use the correct metal reinforced o-rings? they would be subaru specific and you would have HAD to have bought them from Subaru or thepartsbin.com as no other place carries them. well there's probably one other place, but not that i know of and no normal store has them. if you did not replace them or just used a regular oring then this is very likely your problem.

 

So, maybe you need to install the new HLAs after all; you said that they moved very freely, which sounds to me like more than 0.5mm, .

 

he said they moved freely when he pulled them out of the head, that's common if they're not in oil.

 

if you were able to get all of them to move up and down freely while it was apart i bet they were fine. But..you said you disassembled them, do you mean you actually took the lifters (technically they are hydraulic valve lash adjusters) apart? how confident are you that you got them back together properly?

[LuvScooby]

Wow...thanks for the great ideas. The car had bad h-gaskets on both sides when I bought it. I towed it home, and ran it very little. I don't recall any specific lifter noise....at least not nearly like the noise that I have now. I seem to have noise on both sides. Also, when I first put the cam cases back on, I did NOT replace the metal o-rings...they were not in the felpro gasket set I bought. I bought some thru 'partsbin'....but now I cannot find them. I wonder if I could carefully seal around the ones that are in the cases now with rtv? I know that's hokey...but I have the passenger side torn down now, and I really dont like the thought of leaving it apart while waiting for the o-rings to arrive.

After origionally putting the heads etc back on...I had a miss, and finally found out that I had no compression on the rear passenger cyl. I feel its because the lifters are not pumping up enough to operated the valves. I took the hlas out the first time, and they could not be depressed by hand...not any at all. I put them in a vice, and they all depressed that way. I then popped the caps off and pulled the 'spools' out and flushed each one with contact fluid. I then put each one back together, and made sure each one went back where it belonged. They just never pumped back up. I thought that maybe I had damaged them or something so I ordered 'new' ones, but once I pulled my old ones back out, they seem to push in as easily as the new ones...so now I am doubtful that I messed them up...they just never pumped up.

Also...does anyone have any secret to getting the cam cases on without dropping the rockers? I swear...the first time I reassembled the heads...in the car...I was able to hold them on with grease and somehow get the cases on without knocking a single rocker off, this time....no such luck. Man that is so irritating! I guess I need to wait untill i get more o-rings anyway...

[idosubaru]

I wonder if I could carefully seal around the ones that are in the cases now with rtv?.

 

STOP! i'm replying...this is a very bad idea.

[idosubaru]

do not add RTV or any sealant to that o-ring. you need to get the new orings. Subaru charges nearly the exact same amount as thepartsbin, so if you have a local dealer just buy form them or call and have them mail them to you. wait this one out, listen to me on this one. and they often have them in stock since every EA82 and ER27 engine has them.

 

your HLA's sound fine to me and are probably not the problem. until you replace those metal reinforced orings at the cam carriers it's just guess work, but there's no way those should be reused. and definitely do not use RTV, if someone says they did or tells you to, ignore the suggestion.

 

as for the rocker arms, use grease. if they won't stay, lower the opposite side of the car and jack up the other so the engine is tilted some, this angle will help as well. grease should work by itself, but the tilting will help.

[LuvScooby]

Ha Ha...okay...I found my o-rings. I didn't rtv the old ones...I wouldn't have untill I found out it was acceptable to do so....I was just wondering if it was okay...Thanks a million for the warning! The old o-ring broke into pieces when I took it out. It was definately flat and crunchy.

I took the carrier off without taking the fan, pulleys, belt covers or anything else(except the intake boot). I thought I could save a little time. Let me recommend NOT doing this. I have come to despise pulling the fan and crank pulley, etc....but I broke my rear timing cover while trying to reinstall the carrier. Well, I actually had the carrier back on, but I broke the cover while trying to reseat the gasket on the back side. So I will have to take all that crap off anyway. I even managed to get the belt back on the pulley, but alas, I am afraid it may be a tooth off. I knew better. So class, do it like you know you're supposed to...I just wont get it done this weekend. I sure hope this fixes the problem.

[hooziewhatsit]

I'll need to replace the lifters on my 91 loyale before too long also Not really looking forward to it...

 

A tip to get the cam case back on... Make sure the key on the cam is up before you try to join it with the engine (I think straight up is right).

 

Anywho, just make sure none of the lobes on the cam are in a position to depress a valve. Otherwise, one lobe will hold the whole case away from the rest of the rockers, letting them fall off much easier. This also puts the cam in the right place for putting timing belts on.

 

-Dave

[LuvScooby]

Well, I decided to start the car this afternoon...just to see if anything had changed. I still have to replace the o-ring in the other cam case too, but I just wanted to see...It's still very loud, but it seemed to be running better. It idles at around 1100(manual tranny). I think that's too high. The distributor was clockwise as far as it could go, and the timing was near 35degrees(timing light). I know it should be around 22 or so, but it was so smooth that I took it down the road. I can tell that I am at least running on all 4 cylinders now, whereas acceleration was much better, and there was no flat spot in the higher rpms. I only went about 10 miles because the car is not registered now. The temp was good, and it accelerated well, just still loud as heck. When I got it home, I turned the dist enough to bring the timing to around 22degrees. I took it down the road again, but it wasn't as powerful as before. Wonder why? What do I have off? Ahh...I didn't reset the timing with the plugs in the trunk...crap! I can't remember exactly how to do it.