October 15, 200718 yr If they can get 60 miles range from what is essentially a brick i will be impressed. The AWD is a big drag on the car, along with the AC. I know to keep the AWD they had to keep the 5 speed tranny. Electric motors are opposit internal combustion, the faster they spin the more effecient they are. Most the money is in the AC drive and the batteries. nipper
October 15, 200718 yr I'm sure they'll sell a handful of them, but no more than that. $40k is a lot of money for a car that has a maximum range of 2 hrs. Folks want efficient cars that perform like our gas guzzlers. Subie would probably hit a home run if they came out with a hybrid, though I think it's proven that low fuel consumption is not a major priority of most of their customers.
October 15, 200718 yr If i had the money i would order one as 80% of my driving right now can be handled by an electric. As long as i dont go to NYC my daily mileage is under 40 miles (and thats when im bored). If not bored its about 10. nipper
October 15, 200718 yr Author Why aren't the electric motors in the wheels in new EV designs? They can then serve as power, brakes/regen, and you could set up the design as you like it ... FWD/RWD/AWD, just by placing motors in the appropriate hubs. No transmissions, no 'brakes' (except service and back-up). Cars could be built up like Legos, any way the customer wanted them. The only concept I ever saw was the GM platform/body thingie a couple of years ago, but even that had a frame mounted motor and transmission with all hte attendent weight & friction drag. Thread hijack may send this to another forum , but wait, is it possible to hijack one's own thread?
October 15, 200718 yr Why aren't the electric motors in the wheels in new EV designs? They can then serve as power, brakes/regen, and you could set up the design as you like it ... FWD/RWD/AWD, just by placing motors in the appropriate hubs. No transmissions, no 'brakes' (except service and back-up). Cars could be built up like Legos, any way the customer wanted them. The only concept I ever saw was the GM platform/body thingie a couple of years ago, but even that had a frame mounted motor and transmission with all hte attendent weight & friction drag. Thread hijack may send this to another forum , but wait, is it possible to hijack one's own thread? They are in the wheels on the new designs. But remeber one thing, thats unsprung weight. So you are adding more wieght that the ball joints etc have to deal with. Also normally you want to pout as little as possible on the unsprung side due to road shocks. nipper
October 15, 200718 yr Author They are in the wheels on the new designs. But remeber one thing, thats unsprung weight. So you are adding more wieght that the ball joints etc have to deal with. Also normally you want to pout as little as possible on the unsprung side due to road shocks. nipper Yeah, I'm aware of the unsprung weight issue, still seems like a trade-off toward simplification to me. I guess we just have to wait for 'fresh-off-the drawing-mouse' designs instead of warmed over ICE platforms for any real utility.
October 15, 200718 yr Yeah, I'm aware of the unsprung weight issue, still seems like a trade-off toward simplification to me. I guess we just have to wait for 'fresh-off-the drawing-mouse' designs instead of warmed over ICE platforms for any real utility. I know ford was toying with the escape hybrid, FWD gas/electric and rwd was electric. The other problem is torque steer and synchronizing the 2 or four motors. ALso you still need a gear box of some kind to take full advantage of the electric motor. nipper
October 16, 200718 yr That's how the Highlander Hybrid is, it's got the standard hybrid transmission up front (MG1 is connected to the engine, MG2 is connected to the wheels, computer controlled shunt + power split device (Set of planetary gears) acts as the "gears" in the transmission) and an electric motor that drives the rear diff directly. Also the A/C and power steering are electric, driven off the hybrid battery. The Prius and Camry Hybrids are the same way, just without the rear motor.
October 17, 200718 yr instead of having the electric motors at the wheels why not have them on the front and rear diffs?
October 17, 200718 yr With computers as smart as they are, they could just adjust the power sent to each wheel given their orientation -- i.e., send less power to the rear right wheel when in a right turn... Without engines, transmissions, driveshafts, or axles, you've saved a lot of weight right there. - Scott
October 17, 200718 yr Not really. Electric power steering has a long way to go yet, as one example as response. The differnetial, in all its beuty, is a mechanical instantanious computer. Its also cheap. COmputers for drivelines have to be pregramed for all driving conditions, and variations in traction. So why spend millions and millions on something that may not work with todays technology, vs something thats been around for eons. Not to mention all the liability issues (and there will lawsuits). nipper
October 17, 200718 yr With a light enough car, you lessen (or eliminate) the need for power steering. A computerized diff probably wouldn't be that hard either -- you could measure the current drop in the motors to tell whether the tires are slipping or not. I can't name any computerized diffs on the market, but there are much tougher engineering problems out there. :cool: - Scott
October 18, 200718 yr With a light enough car, you lessen (or eliminate) the need for power steering. A computerized diff probably wouldn't be that hard either -- you could measure the current drop in the motors to tell whether the tires are slipping or not. I can't name any computerized diffs on the market, but there are much tougher engineering problems out there. :cool: - Scott Honda has a "computerized diff" and guess what. It is still a set of gears with computer controlled clutch pack. Electric vehicals are expensive enough, cost is almost as much an issue as weight, so the diff as we know it will be around for quite some time. As far as power steering, lots of luck. Too many spoiled drivers out there, that they need power assist even in the smallest cars. nipper
October 18, 200718 yr On a car with a standard transmission the power steering doesn't work at all when the clutch is disengaged and the engine is idling, right? I don't have any problem steering without PS. Why don't thy just make an electric car with the same steering rack? No power steering needed, right? The more I think about the electrical Subie, the more I don't see the point. If it's only good for short distances, I'm sure you lose most of the advantages of AWD. Unless your short commute involes a very short trip on mountain roads or up and down a long, steep, and windy driveway, do you really get any advantage over a cheaper green vehicle? I love my Subies for the AWD, but take away that and the the H4 engine and they're sub-par vehicles.
October 19, 200718 yr By "computerized diff" I meant a computer that was modulating the electricity to each individual motor, rather than any centralized mechanical device. But no matter, it probably will be a long time before we see anything like it on the market.
October 19, 200718 yr On a car with a standard transmission the power steering doesn't work at all when the clutch is disengaged and the engine is idling, right? I don't have any problem steering without PS. Why don't thy just make an electric car with the same steering rack? No power steering needed, right? . HUH? Power steering always works as long as the enigne is running, same thing with electric power steering. There are two kinds of electric power steering, one is where a electric motor runs the pump on demand, and the 2nd generation (and more exp) is where the electric steeping motor is part of the steering rack. The 2nd one tends to make the steering wheel feel numb. If you want to feel what power steering feels like without the car running, shut the car off and try to turn the wheel. nipper
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