mlpdickerson Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I have my own thread finally! 160k on it 2.5 engine Heres the deal-we just bought this car from a guy-drove it home 20 miles-not an overheat in sight. Next day-start up fine-ok for first 10 miles then temp gauge rocketships to the top. Replaced thermostat-did that little burping thing with the screw on the radiator. overheats every time now. Just cant understand how they fixed it so it would go all the way home and then bam... looks like some new hoses under the hood-scary right it overheats and spouts fluid out of the overflow tank-it looks pretty clean though BUT to me the radiator feels cold-in fact-i was able to uncap the radiator right after turning it off (big no-no-I am aware) Got a new OEM thermostat-going to try that along with those things nipper recommended: 1- Replace the radiator cap and clean the neck of the radiator. 2- Remove and clean the overflow tank. 3- Change the t-stat and flush the cooling system. Use a premix to refill. Refill slowly with the engine running and the bleed valve on the radiator open. Wait for the t-stat to open, then slowly fill up some more after the colling system burps. Close bleed valve.Drive the car around the block, let it cool off, and repeat. That should get the air out. more later-thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Open up the coolant recovery bottle and the radiator. Take a good sniff. Does it smell like an exhaust pipe? That much pressure without boiling coolant is more serious than a bad radiator cap, or non OEM t-stat. Dirty coolant recovery bottle will not cause the engine to overheat or spew coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlpdickerson Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 okay did those things nipper suggested-still overheats-in fact i think its getting worse-faster i mean actually i looked and we did not remove and clean the overflow tank so i think i will have to do this myself tomorrow... as for the bubbles in the overflow tank and the smell-spouse says he can see the bubbles-i swear i dont see them...and i really dont think the bottle smells like exhaust (of course most of the exhaust i am used to is pretty funky so maybe i am expecting this...... here is what i dont understand-the radiator does feel hot now but the fluid in the overflow tank is NOT hot. Of course this most likely means i dont understand the process. what now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Okay-did you happen to save the old coolant? If so take a sample and have it tested ( i can't remember the name of the test,but someone will chime in). Just because the radiator or hoses are hot it wouldn't automatically mean the fluid in your recovery tank fluid would be hot.Do you have heat in the cabin of the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlpdickerson Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 Okay-did you happen to save the old coolant? If so take a sample and have it tested ( i can't remember the name of the test,but someone will chime in).Just because the radiator or hoses are hot it wouldn't automatically mean the fluid in your recovery tank fluid would be hot.Do you have heat in the cabin of the car? heat fine in the cabin until the temp needle starts to spike up...then it blows cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 heat fine in the cabin until the temp needle starts to spike up...then it blows cold Thats bad. Sound slike a head gasket to me. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlpdickerson Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 the price i got to do the gaskets was $2100-does that seem high or what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 the price i got to do the gaskets was $2100-does that seem high or what Very high (by 600.00 or more), where did you get that estimate, and what are they going to do for it? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Sounds like a clogged radiator. We had a 93 here that had persistant overheating issues. Replaced everything, water pump, thermostat, hoses, CTS. Finally the radiator blew a hole in the bottom. Replaced it. No more problems. Cut the end cap off the old radiator. Openings look fine, not clogged. Ran fluid through it, only trickled through at the top and bottom edges. THe whole middle of the Rad. was clogged, but showed no signs of total blockage. Just didn't have adequate flow or surface area anymore. Try a new radiator. And make sure you've got a good water pump and timing belt(read: get new ones if you haven't recently) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Is that a dealer price or Indy? And is there any white looking stuff in your oil or smoke out the exhaust? I would attempt every test known to prove out the head gaskets before conclusion although it does sound like HG. And if it does prove to be HG and you want to keep the car you might look into a 2.2 swap or rebuild from CCR.going that route I would swap in the used 2.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 At 160,000 miles you would need a compression test first to make sure its a head gasket, and to see what condition the engine is in. A clogged radiator usually is a heat load problem (Ac on, or car gets hot the faster its driven), unless its really bad. It may be time to take it to an indepdent shop (get guestimates first) then have them do a compression test. I recomend a guestamit, this way if it does come back a bad HG, that shop can do the work, instead of moving the car around. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Everything so far is pointing to head gaskets. There are tests that can be done to check for hydrocarbons (unburned gas fumes) in the cooling system. None that I know of for actually testing the antifreeze. The nature of the 2.5L DOHC head gasket leak is that combustion pressure from the cylinders is being pushed into the cooling system. This creates much greater pressure in the cooling system than is normal. Thus forceing more coolant than normal out into the recovery bottle causeing it to overflow. The coolant being pushed out and combustion gases takeing its place causes an "air pocket" that disrupts the flow of coolant though the system. Or you just simply loose enough coolant that you have an overheating problem. The leak is never bad enough to alow the low pressure in the cooling system to push antifreeze into the cylinders. This is why you won't find the generic "bad head gasket signs", water in oil, excessive amounts of oil in water. If the gaskets have been leaking long enough and nobody has clean the recovery bottle there will be an oil substance in the recovery bottle, but you will never get the milkshake looking mix in the cooling system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlpdickerson Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 that was the dealer price and i dont know what they will do for it...what am i asking? I'd like to try a new radiator first i think...couldnt hurt and fairly cheap... rather than doing the gaskets-I'd rather get a 2.2. I have had older subarus which where still chugging along strong when they got replaced based on other issues...I think they must have been a better engine-i think i had an 88 GL wagon-it was a running beast.... oh smoke-no smoke that i have seen at all..... thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 that was the dealer price and i dont know what they will do for it...what am i asking? I'd like to try a new radiator first i think...couldnt hurt and fairly cheap... rather than doing the gaskets-I'd rather get a 2.2. I have had older subarus which where still chugging along strong when they got replaced based on other issues...I think they must have been a better engine-i think i had an 88 GL wagon-it was a running beast.... oh smoke-no smoke that i have seen at all..... thanks *whew* Subarus dont smoke when they blow a HG, they are odd that way. At that mileage, a new Radiator is not throwing money away. If it is a HG once you drain the radiator to work on the eninge, things tend to turn into goo in there anyway. The engine replacement (if it is a bad HG - compression test) is a very valid option. There are also over the counter test for exhaust gasses in the coolant. It sounds like you are fairly well along with the symptons, so you should have a valid exhaust gas or compression test data. Sometimes the HG issue can be hard to pin down, but i dont think this will be the case. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Okay-well I would stay away from the dealer,as Nipper suggested this is pretty high priced and with the year of the car I would start relying on a reputable indy mechanic if you can't or don't want to do repairs yourself and i would seriously consider an engine swap.If you're keeping the car it won't set you back to replace the radiator anyways so that is an option to try before any further repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Ther are two things that will push excessive amounts of coolant into the recovery bottle. 1) Boiling the coolant. Vapors from boiling displace the coolant and pushes it out of the system. In this case the coolant comeing out of the recovery bootle will be boiling hot. 2) As I explained, combustion pressure. In this case if the coolant will be cold or colder than boiling. A compression test will not prove or disprove a head gasket leak on these engines. A leak down test, with engine at operating temp. will. Or a test for HC's in cooling system. Over heating due to a cloged radiator will result in the coolant in the system boiling. If the radiator is not boiling over, the radiator is not the primary cause of the problem. It is possible that it may have some restriction, and will not hurt anything to replace it. In this case I would bet the price of a radiator that it won't fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 A compression test will not prove or disprove a head gasket leak on these engines. Its a fail/maybe test. If they were going to keep the engine, a compression test should be mandatory. Not to determin if it is a hg (by itself) but to find out what condition the engin is in generally. I would not recomend a HG change on an engine with 160 or less due to wear (just to toss a number out there). If the test comes up with low compression on one cylinder, test confirms the HG, if not, time for the next test. You need to look at more then the problem on an older engine, but also the condition in general of what your working with. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If the test comes up with low compression on one cylinder, test confirms the HG, if not, time for the next test.[/qutoe] You have made it obvious that none of your 30 years wrenching experiance has been on the 2.5L DOHC Subaru engine. But you do have nearly 8,000 posts. You got me. You need to look at more then the problem on an older engine, but also the condition in general of what your working with. nipper Absolutely! You need to determine weather what you have is worth repairing. Weather you want to spend money to do that before or after diagnoiseing the original problem..............that is a personal choice. Best of luck. Over and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If the test comes up with low compression on one cylinder, test confirms the HG, if not, time for the next test.[/qutoe] You have made it obvious that none of your 30 years wrenching experiance has been on the 2.5L DOHC Subaru engine. But you do have nearly 8,000 posts. You got me. Absolutely! You need to determine weather what you have is worth repairing. Weather you want to spend money to do that before or after diagnoiseing the original problem..............that is a personal choice. Best of luck. Over and out. Sometimes i just don't get what some people are trying to say. I try to keep in mind that other people with similar problems may be reading the thread. so its preferable to add information then omit it. Disagree with me then agree with me? I guess that big blue car I have has something else under the hood besides a 2.5, or the multitude of other subarus i have worked on. I am also the first to admit i dont know, and freely admit my weaknesses. I would never make a snide comment to you, since I do not know you personally. I'll just make things easier for you and not respond directly to your threads, and wish you a happy holiday. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Everything so far is pointing to head gaskets. There are tests that can be done to check for hydrocarbons (unburned gas fumes) in the cooling system. None that I know of for actually testing the antifreeze. The nature of the 2.5L DOHC head gasket leak is that combustion pressure from the cylinders is being pushed into the cooling system. This creates much greater pressure in the cooling system than is normal. Thus forceing more coolant than normal out into the recovery bottle causeing it to overflow. The coolant being pushed out and combustion gases takeing its place causes an "air pocket" that disrupts the flow of coolant though the system. Or you just simply loose enough coolant that you have an overheating problem. The leak is never bad enough to alow the low pressure in the cooling system to push antifreeze into the cylinders. This is why you won't find the generic "bad head gasket signs", water in oil, excessive amounts of oil in water. If the gaskets have been leaking long enough and nobody has clean the recovery bottle there will be an oil substance in the recovery bottle, but you will never get the milkshake looking mix in the cooling system. I'm telling ya every other mechanic diagnosed the car I mentioned before as needing headgaskets. It had excactly the same symptoms as the car in question. Including coolant being push out hte overflow. It pushed water out the bottle and had exccessive pressure in the top radiator hose espescially. I doubted that diagnosis, but was at the point of begining to agree after rulling out EVERYTHING else..........Except the radiator. "It's following right? We flushed it? It's gotta be OK" I kept telling my partner. Finally the rad blew a leak and we replaced it. Cut the old one apart and it barely trickled through a couple tubes. Zero problems since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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