bluebaru Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 After considering how to achieve more articulation on the front of my wagon i think i might have a good answer. Im doing the t-case lift and i am planning on essentially building a sub-frame to go under the ea81 body. Could i simply use a torsion bar in the front facing the opposite direction of the rear? i would have to modify it to work with the front knuckle but this would solve the travel issues... no more binding radius rods or wimpy A-arms. this would also solve most of the issues related to mounting the front differential. The only problem i forsee is that the wheel travels in a arc so it would go towards whatever you just hit. Is this a major issue? it would keep larger tires from hitting the firewall under compression though... this is going to be for offroad use only so im not worried about high speed. Maybe you guys could contribute some ideas as to why this would or would not work... thanks Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 well, thats pretty much what they use on 2wd Toyotas in the 80s, and chevy trucks in the 60s, so I think it could work, might as well try it, and if you dont like it, make A-arms for the front and youll be done with radius rods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebaru Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 yeah that was the other option but it includes buying expensive long travel coilovers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 eh, only if you want more travel yeah, but you could fab up some sort of shock mount then discharge the struts and do some more creative modding to them and bam you got coil spring A arms and regular any car shocks. If you could get really creative you could incorporate an upper A arm in the front lift blocks, and a spring perch for that matter, and you could do a setup similar to late model independent rigs like toyota trucks and such. But in that case the torsion bar is much simpler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebaru Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 yeah. the whole idea is to gain some travel. i thought about the just coils and then some shocks idea but im kinda scared that im gonna like bust the coil out somehow and not be able to get it back in on the trail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 well, if you snap a torsion bar, you got the same problem, unless you have a welder and a peice of pipe/tubing just right to fit over the bar. With coils you could make clamps to hold them in the place they go, and limiting straps so you dont destroy your axles with your new articulation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 i often thought about this as well.in effect you could fab a mount to where the now upside down diff is able to rotate so that the axles have more flex with the suspension. as far as being able to utilize the rear hubs and whatnot up front it would be easier i feel to just cut a rear axle in half,sleeve the rear outer to a front inner and weld it. that allows you to use a shock all around.the top mounting surface is easy enough with a lift block type idea,with shock mounting down below. to do it properly you would need extensive research on shocks to find which would be applicable for the front without coilsprings involved. i would think that a freshly rebuilt and clocked torsion bar would hold engine weight fine if the proper shock were found.say something from a 3/4 ton truck maybe?who knows.anyways,your not the only one who has thought about this. cheers, brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebaru Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Anybody know where i could pick up a rebuild torsion bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebaru Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 "in effect you could fab a mount to where the now upside down diff is able to rotate so that the axles have more flex with the suspension." any ideas as to how you could do this. it seems like if it can move with the suspension then wouldnt it twist under acceleration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 just said i had thought about it.......didn't say i had started planning it;) .good point though. i guess you could make it in a pinch bolt style through a bushing.or have some type of lock for speeds above say 15 .youd only really want it on trail anyway right?some type of magnetic lock could be accomplished,or better yet an air lock. or even better yet, you could run a cross bar from side to side in place of the mustache bar mount and have it connected to the trailing arms themselves somehow.i dunno.tons of possibilities cheers, brian the main thing here is to think outside the box.look at 50 different suspension setups online then come back and discuss them:lol: here is a good link for you to explore http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html "in effect you could fab a mount to where the now upside down diff is able to rotate so that the axles have more flex with the suspension." any ideas as to how you could do this. it seems like if it can move with the suspension then wouldnt it twist under acceleration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo1966 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Ide go A-Arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 way kewl link Monsta thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 man, i read that page like three times. at different points in the brats evolution of course,not in a row.but a plethera of info on that one.stoked to have that bookmarked for sure.....cheers, brian way kewl link Monstathanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebaru Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 ya thanks for the link i think its gonna help me some at least as far as imagination goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 That Car Bible link is the coolest thing I've seen in a long time. I too have brainstrormed ideas using the torsion bar up front but never got anywhere with it. My plan was to put the components up on blocks in the garage and stare at it and experiment until a design comes together or fails. Subaru junk yard wars...great winter entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsoob Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 yeah that was the other option but it includes buying expensive long travel coilovers If you are looking at A-Arms, have you looked into Fox 2.0 air shocks? They are half the price of coilovers. They are valvable and and rebuildable. Ride height is set by the nitrogen charge and can be adjusted. No coils to worry about. Just a thought! Here is a guy who uses them on a much heavier rig... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 "in effect you could fab a mount to where the now upside down diff is able to rotate so that the axles have more flex with the suspension." any ideas as to how you could do this. it seems like if it can move with the suspension then wouldnt it twist under acceleration? The difference in flex between the front and the rear is caused by the axles, not the suspension. In the rear, the joints only have to deal with the angle of vertical offsett. In the front, you have the same angle, PLUS the angle of steering. So that puts a big limitation on the amount of allowable travel. If you are doing a t-case swap, use a solid front axle for flex. It will give you the differential rotating with suspesion travel, and the articulation you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 just because you do not want to , or feel the need to do anything experimental does not mean that it is not possible to gain more flex out of it.let the man experiment if he wants to.where is your sense of adventure?outside of the box is just as fun as inside the box.you should come out and play once in a while,whether you think it is a waste of time or not. cheers, brian The difference in flex between the front and the rear is caused by the axles, not the suspension. In the rear, the joints only have to deal with the angle of vertical offsett. In the front, you have the same angle, PLUS the angle of steering. So that puts a big limitation on the amount of allowable travel. If you are doing a t-case swap, use a solid front axle for flex. It will give you the differential rotating with suspesion travel, and the articulation you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebaru Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 thanks for the heads up desertsoob. this is actually going on your old car. I have a fox shock on my mountain bike that works exactly the same way. they make really nice stuff im gonna look into some of those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 just because you do not want to , or feel the need to do anything experimental does not mean that it is not possible to gain more flex out of it.let the man experiment if he wants to.where is your sense of adventure?outside of the box is just as fun as inside the box.you should come out and play once in a while,whether you think it is a waste of time or not. cheers, brian Yeah, let me experiment with placing this sharp object as far as I can up my nose... Some things are not worth experimenting with, and I am pointing out the limitations of the subaru front end. It's not the suspension that's limiting it, it's the axles. Subaru's have a remarkably tight turning angle, which is already a stress on the axles. Adding into that vertical angles beyond the design specs, and the abuse of offroading, and you will break them faster than you can put them in. Seeing that the rear suspension can flex farther with longer travel shocks and assuming you can get the front to do the same doesn't work. Most likely the thinking abou the torsion bar front is a mental exercise, and I am pointing out why it should stay that way. maybe they will maybe they won't.and if they don't i'll try the next pair.and after and so on. the struts are brand new,never been driven on with rx springs and the extra adjustment all the way up.it will relax a bit.the important thing is that at full droop they are not overextended.and they aren't.so we'll see how long it takes to break them.everything comes with trial and error.and i like to break ************. oh yeah .ordered my disty today and should have it tomorrow. i'll try an pick it up after i am done hunting.need some vacuum for the brake booster,have to build a collection unit for the crankcase ventilation ,work on the hood clearance issue and put the rearend in. Quote: Originally Posted by 91Loyale your axles won't make it to the show! look at those angles! I went back to find out why you were being a wongleflute. I guess you still have a bottle brush in a private area because of this. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 oh right.like i suspected.instead of taking constructive criticism and backing off you need to continue.well please. if you feel it is not useful to expirement ,then don't.let your limitations hold you back.not anyone else. and to address the name calling .big man across the country callin someone names over the internet.ohhh,way to express yourself. i don't hold grudges mate.i just think you are negative minded.and i don't like negative minded folks.i hope that one day your heart heals itself so that you do not feel the need to transfer your pain and weakness to others. and if you have sommething to say to me again.pm me.or start a thread callin me out.by all means keep your pety ************ to yourself.it's not good for the board.but most of all,always remember. what you reap is what you sow.......sorry for the hijack guys.cheers,brian Yeah, let me experiment with placing this sharp object as far as I can up my nose... Some things are not worth experimenting with, and I am pointing out the limitations of the subaru front end. It's not the suspension that's limiting it, it's the axles. Subaru's have a remarkably tight turning angle, which is already a stress on the axles. Adding into that vertical angles beyond the design specs, and the abuse of offroading, and you will break them faster than you can put them in. Seeing that the rear suspension can flex farther with longer travel shocks and assuming you can get the front to do the same doesn't work. Most likely the thinking abou the torsion bar front is a mental exercise, and I am pointing out why it should stay that way. I went back to find out why you were being a wongleflute. I guess you still have a bottle brush in a private area because of this. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 The torsion bar idea is intriguing. I do have a question, I looked at my Brat rear. It appears the tire, when turned, would hit the TB? Do you plan to angle them or maybe offset the wheel? A brain that is not exercised, atrophies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebaru Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 good point skip. i had not thought about that really. i think i will try and build some type of a-arm variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Some years ago I was laying under the car pondering mutant t-bar suspension ideas. One concept involved mounting a Legacy/Imp style front cross member, a rear diff, and suspension stuff to where the read hubs normally go. Doesn't make sense but I was trying to come up with a way to increase wheel travel by allowing the diff to rotate or float like a solid axle multi link setup. I wanted to lock the torsion bar travel on the road and let it move on the trail. I don't know what I was thinking for struts or dampers. Too much beer that day I guess...just wacked junkyard war ideas flyin around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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