trikerbob Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Hey, Got any pictures of that trike? Doug Boy oh boy, this has been a head knocker. Me and 2 friends with extensive motor experience, have been working on trying to get this motor to run for 2 days now, and nothing. It acts like it wants to start. It fires good for a couple pops out of each side but just won't catch. Checked and tripple checked everything we can think of and we can't get it to start. We are all dumb founded. Have no clue why this motor will not run. We have 130 to 150 lbs compression in each cylinder, we have fire at each plug, we have primed it through the plug hole, through the carb, we have used startering fluid, we have checked and rechecked wires and timeing until we are blue in the face, and it will not start. We have setup a timeing light to see that it fires on each cylinder when it should. We are stumped. The report is not good! Anyone have any ideas. I'm going to call Honest Engine in the morning to see if they can take a look at it. At this point, I don't know what else to do. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The compression is low. You should have around 170 lbs of pressure. I suspect the valve timing is off a little. Others have had this same trouble. Is it possible you used the wrong mark on the crank gear to set the timing? It has happened to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The compression is low. You should have around 170 lbs of pressure. I suspect the valve timing is off a little. Others have had this same trouble. Is it possible you used the wrong mark on the crank gear to set the timing? It has happened to others. Yep, what Cougar said. Bob, you used these marks for the belt install, right? And these, to set the distributor in, right? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Yep, what Cougar said. Bob, you used these marks for the belt install, right? And these, to set the distributor in, right? Doug No, First off I was not aware of any marks on the belts. Seconedly, I don't have a flywheel. No flywheel came with the motor and I'm setup with an adapter plate where the flywheel would be to hook up to my VW automatic Transmission. I used the info from the shop manual to set up cam and belts. With cam gear in place. This is how its setup: with #1 piston at TDC on Fire stroke, left cam gear is set with the tiny hole in the gear directly lined up with the little notch in the plastic cover behind it. I think you can see this in the photo OK. Then the right side is set with the small hole in the cam gear the same way only 180 degress different. In the photo you can see how the little hole is at the top on left and at the bottom on right side. This is the same way my wifes motor was set up, and of course we have refered to that motor several times to see how things are set up on that motor, and it runs great. The Dist. has been set and reset several times to try to make sure it fires when it should. We have d iing light to watch it fire when the marks on the cam come around as I show in the photos. What are we doing wrong? Bob[/img][/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 No, First off I was not aware of any marks on the belts. Seconedly, I don't have a flywheel. No flywheel came with the motor and I'm setup with an adapter plate where the flywheel would be to hook up to my VW automatic Transmission. I used the info from the shop manual to set up cam and belts. With cam gear in place. This is how its setup: with #1 piston at TDC on Fire stroke, left cam gear is set with the tiny hole in the gear directly lined up with the little notch in the plastic cover behind it. I think you can see this in the photo OK. Then the right side is set with the small hole in the cam gear the same way only 180 degress different. In the photo you can see how the little hole is at the top on left and at the bottom on right side. This is the same way my wifes motor was set up, and of course we have refered to that motor several times to see how things are set up on that motor, and it runs great. The Dist. has been set and reset several times to try to make sure it fires when it should. We have d iing light to watch it fire when the marks on the cam come around as I show in the photos. What are we doing wrong? Bob[/img][/img] http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8208/s6300511hf7.jpg http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9894/s6300510mf3.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8208/s6300511hf7.jpg http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9894/s6300510mf3.jpg Of course the book refers to the timeing marks on the flywheel, but not having a flywheel to go by, I've had no choice but to just go by the only other means I can. If we are at TDC on #1 and Dist is set to fire at that point, and the other bank set in order, it should run...Right? Then the Dist can be adjusted to get the 8 degress BTDC for proper timeing. HELP!! Can anyone give detailed info on what we might be doing wrong? Thanks for any help you can give me. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Of course the book refers to the timeing marks on the flywheel, but not having a flywheel to go by, I've had no choice but to just go by the only other means I can. If we are at TDC on #1 and Dist is set to fire at that point, and the other bank set in order, it should run...Right? Then the Dist can be adjusted to get the 8 degress BTDC for proper timeing. HELP!! Can anyone give detailed info on what we might be doing wrong? Thanks for any help you can give me. Bob Hi Bob, Hang in there dude. There are no marks on the belt, so don't worry about that. WAG by me, your belts and distributor are about 90* out of sync. Click on USRM in the right top corner of the screen. Ultimate Subaru Repair Manual. Click on Engine. Go to second page. Click on "Timing Belt Procedure" by Miles Fox. The info near the bottom goes into some detail you should look at. HTH, Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Looking at your picture, I assume that you used the left side cylinder, and closest to the photographer, as #1. Just to make sure we are on the same page here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Hi Bob, Hang in there dude. There are no marks on the belt, so don't worry about that. WAG by me, your belts and distributor are about 90* out of sync. Click on USRM in the right top corner of the screen. Ultimate Subaru Repair Manual. Click on Engine. Go to second page. Click on "Timing Belt Procedure" by Miles Fox. The info near the bottom goes into some detail you should look at. HTH, Doug Ok, looking at that info, it seems I have done things correctly, except I don't have the flywheel marks to go by, not having a flywheel in place. So without the flywheel to line up marks, how can I line it up. My asumption has always been, if the #1 piston is at TDC the little hole in the cam gear should line up with the notch on the back of the plastic belt cover. Left side at TDC right Side would be BDC. Set Dist in place with it pointing to #1 and it should fire..And it does, but not enough to get it to run. I just don't know how to correct whatever is wrong without the flywheel in place. Any suggestions? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I suggest you stick something into #1 cylinder (the left cylinder as you face the engine) and use it to feel for TDC. Once you get that set then see how your timing belts line up. You may want to mark the TDC point on the top of crank cog using a marker pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Ok, looking at that info, it seems I have done things correctly, except I don't have the flywheel marks to go by, not having a flywheel in place. So without the flywheel to line up marks, how can I line it up. My asumption has always been, if the #1 piston is at TDC the little hole in the cam gear should line up with the notch on the back of the plastic belt cover. Left side at TDC right Side would be BDC. Set Dist in place with it pointing to #1 and it should fire..And it does, but not enough to get it to run. I just don't know how to correct whatever is wrong without the flywheel in place. Any suggestions? Bob Hey Bob, Standing at the back of your trike looking at the engine. Turn the crank clockwise so that the cam sprocket on your left has the dot pointing down. The right cam sprocket dot will be pointing up. If you had a flywheel, the picture with the three lines would show the center of those three lines lining up with the timing pointer on a Subaru bell housing. Ok, your dots are lined up. Turn the crank counter clockwise 90 degrees. This is O degrees TDC. This is where you drop the distributor in. If you do this, it will probably run. Doug Edit: This pic shows the three lines pointing up. This is where it is with the cam dots lined up. The mark to the right is TDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The engine may start but I still think the valve timing is not correct due to the low compression numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Bob[/img][/img] Bob, Here is an easy way to set this up. Starting from the setup in this picture.(assuming the crank is at TDC here) Rotate the crank clockwise excactly 90 degrees. This will leave the marks on the Camshafts at 45 degrees. Get it to the point where the dots are excactly at 45 degrees(one of the large holes on the rim will be excactly at the top) then mark the Crank sprocket at the top center with a punch. This will be you're new belt installation mark. Now using that mark in place of the 3 flywheel lines reset the belts wth the dots at the top. of course rotating once between belts so the dots end up 180 degrees opposite.) The belt installation doesn't use the TDC mark for ease of installation. Using a point 90 degrees off makes it so the lobes on the cam are not pushing very hard against any of the vavles. That way you are not fighting so hard to keep the CAM from *popping* off it's mark during installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 Bob, Here is an easy way to set this up. Starting from the setup in this picture.(assuming the crank is at TDC here) Rotate the crank clockwise excactly 90 degrees. This will leave the marks on the Camshafts at 45 degrees. Get it to the point where the dots are excactly at 45 degrees(one of the large holes on the rim will be excactly at the top) then mark the Crank sprocket at the top center with a punch. This will be you're new belt installation mark. Now using that mark in place of the 3 flywheel lines reset the belts wth the dots at the top. of course rotating once between belts so the dots end up 180 degrees opposite.) The belt installation doesn't use the TDC mark for ease of installation. Using a point 90 degrees off makes it so the lobes on the cam are not pushing very hard against any of the vavles. That way you are not fighting so hard to keep the CAM from *popping* off it's mark during installation. [/sZE] SHE RUNS !! SHE BREATHS FIRE !! I really want to thank you guys for all your help. Its finally running like a scaulded dog. After reading the info in the manual post you guys directed me too, I could see that the timeing marks and the TDC marks were not the same and going by nothing but trying to find TDC then setting the Dist with that, wasn't going to cut it. I remembered that my wifes motor had a flywheel on it when I got it. I was thinking I threw it away but went searching and I found it. So I pulled the motor and removed the adapter plate and put the flywheel back on and then with all the proper marks, it was a piece of cake to set up. Hooked it back up in the Trike and hit the key and she fired up on the first stroke and purred like a kitten. Bob's a happy camper now. This is one sweet motor. I am very happy to have found such a good buy on a remanufactured block like this. This motor will live on in my Trike, long after I've hung up my ridding leathers. I just want to say how much I appreaicate all the help and efforts you guys put into trying to help me out. I hope I can be of help to some of you in the future. I now know a whole lot more about these motors than I ever thought I'd need to know. Thanks Bob:headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 You're a Subee engine pro now. You are welcome for the help and have fun on the new ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerbob Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 You're a Subee engine pro now. You are welcome for the help and have fun on the new ride. Thanks, I have been ridding it around the storage facility several times today. I have a few minor issues to deal with, then I hope me and the wife can take a little ride tomorrow afternoon. Boy, these subie motors are sweet!!! In a light weight Trike, they Rock!!! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Always remember the Subie motto, "It's what's inside!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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