mossy33oak Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Hello all, long time lurker, 1st post. I tried searching to no avail, talked with a local Subaru guy and he says the mid 90's (98 Outback 2.5 specifically) are NOT worth owning. Can anyone help me out before I buy one? Is there a problem with this year/motor combo that makes these vehicles lemons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPR Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 only subaru ive ever heard bad things about is the svx's and anything with the h6. never heard of problems with any 2.5. but then again ive never paid the most attention to outbacks either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 welcome! i'm from maryland (westminster). lots of variables to really say one car does or does not fit anyone, any time, any place, any financial situation, opinion, style, etc.... in general, as far as subaru's go the EJ25, and particularly the 1996-1999 EJ25 (DOHC) is one of Subaru's worse for reliability (my definition). keep in mind we're talking percentages here...subaru percentages...not DODGE. i'd still take an EJ25 any day over a dodge or ford car. my definition of reliability may differ from others. the EJ25 sucks because when the head gaskets fail you can't go anywhere - you're stuck. they're not like some engines that you just keep adding coolant to them, no dice. look up "head gasket" or "torque bind" either here or on the internet and you should find plenty of reading material. the manual trans has far fewer issues with torque bind. and torque bind in general is caused by prior maintenance, it's not a defect. but you're buying a 10 year old car so try and guarantee good maintenance. the head gaskets are just a weak spot, not typical subaru. that's not to say they are bad engines or vehicles, but you need to know this going into it. i would never pay full price for one. if you're looking in the higher price range i'd suggest buying one with a blown engine (easy to find - i've bought a bunch), and buy a new engine from CCR. that's a better way to go than just buying one from joe schmoe's auto lot. not too mention - where is the highest concentration of problematic vehicles going to end up - in people's driveway or back on the market? of course problem vehicles are getting traded in and sold. personally i'd try and get the Phase II EJ25 (SOHC), available in 2000+ and a few 1999's, or an EJ22 vehicle. the Phase II still has head gasket issues but they're different and not nearly as annoying (keep them full and keep driving) a 1995 manual trans outback wagon is the only outback wagon to have the EJ22 (all the others have an EJ25). that might be a good option for you? to me the 20 extra hp just isn't worth it at all. if i want hp i'll just throw a turbo on the thing or do an EJ turbo swap. while rare the EJ25 also has piston slap and more main bearing failures than the EJ18 or EJ22 as well. piston slap is another one you can look up online or on this forum as well. Subaru even addressed these issues themselves. the Phase II EJ25 has a 100k extended head gasket warranty and they always add/require Subaru slime to the coolant to mitigate the problems. And they have updated pistons to mitigate the piston slap issues. all of this considering the EJ22 is one of Subaru's finest and will outlive the rest of the car in most cases if properly cared for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94Loyale Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Listen to Gary, he definately knows what he is talking about. As far as what he was saying about the 2.2 in an Outback and missing the extra power. I have a 99 Outback with the EJ22 swapped into it, automatic. And it runs great, and the power is just fine for the car. It's no speed demon or anything, but it goes well for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 the OP lives like 5 miles from my last house, we chatted. funny stuff! "lemon" is overkill to define the EJ25. many people on here love them and a few hate them. opinions aside, it's best to know what the issues are and purchase accordingly. funny thing the OP has a 96 EJ22 5 speed now....fantastic combination. although he has a no start condition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I just turned 200,000 on my 97 Outback so i'd say it's worth owning. Yes I had a HG failure at 170,000 miles but I bought a 2.5 JDM engine and installed the new design head gaskets before i put it in. Overall the car is a good one, if the HG go then rebuild, get a 2nd gen 2.5, or a 2.2 but that's not a reason to not own one of these Outbacks IMO. Post up some specs like price, miles, maintenance done, condition so you can tell if it's a good value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Overall the car is a good one, if the HG go then rebuild, get a 2nd gen 2.5, or a 2.2 but that's not a reason to not own one of these Outbacks IMO.that's why it's good to know about these things and make decisions accordingly. it may not matter to some people. but a high percentage of people don't go buy an inexpensive car, but extend themselves to get what they want. for those, having a $1,000 - $2,000 repair bill within a year isn't ideal. i've seen those posts here...and on local cars for sale. it's sad seeing someone in debt for a car they can't afford to fix and no reliable transportation. bad decision - yes, that's why it's good to get the info out there. including the info that this is a good car/engine - and a good fit for many people to, like yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It's been a great car, tons of room, great in all types of weather and pretty fun to drive. My biggest repairs other than the HG have been replacing the front calipers and the exhaust, break those costs down over the 5 years I have owned the car and it's maybe $25/month. Add in the new struts/coils I am going to do soon and it's about $35/month over the past 5 years.....MUCH LESS than a new car payment. I would much rather put money each month into my 64.5 Mustang convertible and 69 Bronco restorations than a new car payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 watch it with the 2 solid axle old Bronc - they aren't stable if loaded. I was in one with another engineer at Ford on the test track MANY years ago and almost rolled it. They suffer from the same ills as old Jeeps and IH Scouts - rear wheel "jacking" in close cornering - the same type of problem as the Corvair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 watch it with the 2 solid axle old Bronc - they aren't stable if loaded. I was in one with another engineer at Ford on the test track MANY years ago and almost rolled it. They suffer from the same ills as old Jeeps and IH Scouts - rear wheel "jacking" in close cornering - the same type of problem as the Corvair HiJack in progress :-p Thanks for the warning, I've had a few Jeeps in the past as well and have been 4wheeling for 20+ years so i've had to learn each vehicles quirks. Mine is not stock, 5.5" of lift, 35" tires(for now), NP435 trans(6.69 first gear) and being built for serious trail use with some occasional street driving. They are alot of fun but they don't get very good gas mileage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Hello all, long time lurker, 1st post. I tried searching to no avail, talked with a local Subaru guy and he says the mid 90's (98 Outback 2.5 specifically) are NOT worth owning. Can anyone help me out before I buy one? Is there a problem with this year/motor combo that makes these vehicles lemons? Unless the HG's have been changed it's not worth paying anywhere near book value for. Other than the HG problem they are GREAT cars. How many other cars can go 200K without any other major issues? If you want one buy it have the HG's changed you'll be happy. Just don't pay full boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Whale Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 You may find one of these cars worthwhile, and if you're careful you can get a good buy, especially if there's no dealer involved and the current owner can give you an accurate maintenance and repair history. My wife and I are still very happy with the '96 Outback we bought last year with 154,000 miles (the Blue Whale). It performs well, has no oil leaks, has a versatile and durable interior, and has given us little to worry about (the radiator started to leak--cheap and easy to replace--and later the AC started leaking at a seal, which was easy enough to fix). Everything still works as it should, and the appearance is respectable though certainly not "as new." Of course, the previous owner got hit with the cost of head gasket replacement and some other issues 20,000 miles earlier, so his experience was less favorable. Between a '93 Legacy wagon we bought new and enjoyed very much, a '95 Legacy sedan, and this car, the '96 Outback is my favorite by a good margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 You may find one of these cars worthwhile, and if you're careful you can get a good buy, especially if there's no dealer involved and the current owner can give you an accurate maintenance and repair history. My wife and I are still very happy with the '96 Outback we bought last year with 154,000 miles (the Blue Whale). It performs well, has no oil leaks, has a versatile and durable interior, and has given us little to worry about (the radiator started to leak--cheap and easy to replace--and later the AC started leaking at a seal, which was easy enough to fix). Everything still works as it should, and the appearance is respectable though certainly not "as new." Of course, the previous owner got hit with the cost of head gasket replacement and some other issues 20,000 miles earlier, so his experience was less favorable. Between a '93 Legacy wagon we bought new and enjoyed very much, a '95 Legacy sedan, and this car, the '96 Outback is my favorite by a good margin. Thats's excately my point. If the HG's are done then anything eles that goes wrong is normally not serious and easy to fix though maybe not always cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy33oak Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 After talking to Gary, I think I am going to just put some money into my 96 2.2. Its just hard to get into the thinking of dumping money into a car with 171,000 on the odometer. But in the long run, my little subaru is worth it I guess. Do you guys recommend having the HG done while im having it worked on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 2.2's HG's aren't as wimpy as the 2.5's. I'd be tempted to just do the timing belt, idlers, WP, etc. and not do the HG's. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryebread Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 i researched this HG issue heavily after hearing horror stories from a friend who went through two separate instances on a 96 and i believe 98 legacy outback. so i waited and waited for a manual impreza outback sport with the EJ22 and it was well worth the wait. got it with 75,000 and now at 150,000 and charging strong. best car i have ever owned. i will definitely buy another. hopefully they ironed out all the issues with the EJ25 on newer models or im going for a wrx. gary thanks for droppin knowledge on the subject. im helping a different friend purchase a subi and explained the HG issues but wanted to give some other feedback from more experienced folks on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Mossy, at 171K your Legacy is just getting good and broke in. . . 265K on my 92 and it is still going strong. I use it to carry tools to go around and fix other peoples Subarus. . . Engine hoist and all goes in the back real well (yeah, that tends to blow a few minds ). I pulled the heads off at 200K just to inspect the cyl walls. Only marks I could find on them came from the factory! At 200K, I recomend new seals all around, check the tensioners and replace as needed, new timing belt, and if the water pump has not been replaced, do it. Well worth the investment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Mossyoak - in general i would not replace the headgaskets on your car. it's an EJ22 - that's a no brainer. if the car has seen a rough life....hard driving, poor maintenance, overheated a number of times...etc, then i'd consider it. but if it's been maintained well those head gaskets are NOT going to be a problem. here's how yo'ure going to get another 60,000 miles out of this car (60,000 until the next timing belt change): timing belt, water pump (if it hasn't been replaced) and replace or regrease any timing pulley bearings. i highly recommend the ebay kits here - they include all NEW pulleys and tensioner and belt for a reasonable price ($300 - ish). from Subaru they'd cost $500+ just for parts. if the $300 is too steep, i have a thread about repacking timing pulley bearings on here, which is free...well i guess it costs about 25 cents in grease...unfortunately your mechanic won't do that. there's a thread in the USRM on how to do it. or you could try and get a set of used pulleys in good condition in the parts wanted section and regrease them yourself and hand them to the mechanic? i don't know but after 10 years and 171,000 at least one pulley is empty of grease. you will also want to replace any leaking seals since most of the major engine seals lie behind the timing belt. cam seals, cam oring, oil pump seal and oring. it's only $20 in parts and only takes a few minutes with the timing belt already off. they should at least replace any that are wet. if you have a bad leak you should have noticed some prior oil loss, did you? i guess you're having the same guys do the timing belt and stuff that worked on the intake manifold? i used to know that guys name, but i forgot. gary thanks for droppin knowledge on the subject. im helping a different friend purchase a subi and explained the HG issues but wanted to give some other feedback from more experienced folks on this topic. no problem, i'm in the same boat trying to help people get subaru's. and many can't swing a $1,000+ repair job after buying a $3,000 - $6,000 car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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