Legacide Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Hello all, New to USMB, but Suby owner for many years. I just purchased a 1999 Legacy Outback wagon with the 2.5 from a recovery yard in town. It had been donated to the auto recyclers because it had a blown head and the owner wouldn't have it fixed. So I paid for the donation($600) , and blammo I have a new Legacy. Since I did not know the history behind the vehicle, I decided to purchase an entire new engine, then swap. I didn't feel like finding out later my block was cracked. Anyway, I work at a tractor shop and have a couple of good auto mechanics and figured I would have them install it for me. So, I apologize if my jargon is not up to speed, but I'll do my best to recreate the situation. I purchased the engine from Attarco on ebay. ($800+ $110 Freight) http://www.attarco.com/index.php?main_page=index It is one of those JDM low mileage engines. I knew there would be some hassle, but here we go. Swapped the engine in fine. Replaced the water pump, timing belt, power steering belt, plugs, wires, filters, battery etc. The wiring was cut off of the new engine, so we used all the wiring from the old engine. The alternator was mysteriously missing from the old engine, so we used the one from the new engine. The EGR is missing on the JDM, so it is currently unplugged (tech tells me this should not be a problem?) So the engine is installed, hard part over with, but now we are experiencing some odd electrical problems. 1. When key is out of ignition, some of the dash lights are still on but dimmer than normal. 2. There is no spark. The engine cranks like crazy, but will not turn over. 3. When a diagnostics code reader is plugged in, it does not recognize it is in a car. Obviously, I was not the one who installed this, but I'll do the best I can and ask the tech any follow-up questions you might have. Any direction towards the likely culprit would be great. Anyone done the JDM swap here? Tech tells me it might have to do with the cam or crank sensor? Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I could individually address some of the issues you've raised, but the first thing I'd suggest is to carefully verify that all the electrical ground connections were correctly made when the 'new' engine was installed. Bad grounds could cause many of the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Just to be clear, the dash lights are on with the key out of the car? Did you have this same issue with the motor with the blown HG? This is the first thing that needs to be addressed. Peel this thing back like an onion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 yes, the dash lights are on and dim with the keys out. When I purchased the car, the battery and the alternator were missing, so I do not know if it occurred previously. I know I have a fairly competent tech, so I am going to assume we have good grounds. But will have to wait until tomorrow to verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Lets start with checking the obvious. Does the car have an intact ECU? It almost sounds like it is missing or its bad. The lights, start by pulling fuses and see if they go out. If the dont you have a short someplace and its backfeeding to the dash. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 Is there a failsafe way to determine if the ECU is inop or if it could be something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Is there a failsafe way to determine if the ECU is inop or if it could be something else? Go over the car and make sure the ECU is there, and all the fuses are in place. The fact that the scanner can not see the ecu is toublesome. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 nipper, is there any known issues with compatibility between the Japanese engine and US ecu? from what I read in multiple forums, it should be, save for the EGR code that can be thrown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 I talked to the tech, we haven't checked to verify if the ecu is even in the sucker. so, i guess first thing is first. If I end up having to buy one, should I stick to the OEM ,99 2.5 ECU US version, or can I stray from that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 1. When key is out of ignition, some of the dash lights are still on but dimmer than normal. I've seen this a few times. In both cases it was poor connection at the main engine harness connection, 3 big connectors, passenger side, top rear of engine. I actually had to reach in with a very small tool and crimp the female side of the connections. Never did trace excactly which pin/s it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I've seen this a few times. In both cases it was poor connection at the main engine harness connection, 3 big connectors, passenger side, top rear of engine. I actually had to reach in with a very small tool and crimp the female side of the connections. Never did trace excactly which pin/s it was. That gets filed in my mind for future reference. Since this is a junkyard car so to speak, go over all the connectors and make sure everything is plugged in. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsince77 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 Thanks for helping hands... I'll check connections and grounds tomorrow and report. But if I do have to replace the ECU, should I purchase the stock, or will others work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 As far as the ECU goes make sure that you match up if it is an auto or a manual. 96 to 98 would work and it really does not matter if you use a 2.2 or a 2.5. The ECU is under the front passenger side carpet. If you need one PM me, I have one that should work if its an auto. I really think your missing the ground from the batter side harness to the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ok, so, we cleaned and reconnected the grounds and main wiring harness as advised to do. We are still experiencing the same things. The ecu is intact in the car. May be bad, but it is still there. A little more info though: I stated that the diagnostics tool does not read that it is plugged in, but actually when the key is out of the ignition, you can plug it in, and it reads that it is plugged in. When you turn the key to receive codes, it turns off. any clues? Is there any tests to find out if the ECU is damaged? thanks in advance for help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Ok, so we disconnected the ignition coil and the diagnostic tool read codes and the dim dash lights (when key out) disappeared. Codes read: 130 - O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1) 136 - O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2) 500 - Vehicle Speed Sensor Malfunction 1100 1101 1120 1121 1540 - Vehicle speed sensor malfunction 2 http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/obd2/obd2.html looked here^ for codes, none of the 1100's are on that list We erased the codes to see if they were remnants of the previous engine, but they returned. Do we think I have multiple problems or maybe just the ECU causing all these problems? Why would unplugging the ignition coil make it work? Edited February 17, 2009 by Legacide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Does this car have an auto or manual trans? With that info, I can give specific suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 A reply to my previous post could be useful, but I'm going to make an assumption. The codes you're seeing are typical when the green test/diagnostic connectors under the dash are coupled together. For normal operation, they shouldn't be -- disconnect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 quick update: Well we added another good ground, and YES, we have spark! Looks like the coil that we disconnected was grounding the entire engine I might have a couple of bad 02 sensors, TPS out of sync, But we are getting there, I don't know if the codes are gone yet, but we will check the wires, OB99W The car is a 5-speed Thanks again for all the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ignore the O2 sensor codes for now, and good luck. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm glad you're making progress. All the codes you listed, including the ones for the O2 sensors, are generated when the green connectors are coupled. Pull them apart, clear the ECU memory, and they likely won't recur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 The green wires were disconnected, and you were right, all codes except for a throttle valve code went away! Thanks you guys very much. There was some water in the exhaust that is burning up, but other than that, we have a great car. I'll post some pictures, thanks again I am sure that I will need some more advise down the line, thanks for helping the NOOB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The green wires were disconnected, and you were right, all codes except for a throttle valve code went away! Thanks you guys very much. You're welcome, and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacide Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well, I drove it around a bit and found that the idle/ throttle is acting oddly. Sometimes it will idle at 2000rpms, then sometimes at 750. It bounces around a bit. I started the car while I was scraping the ice off my windows, and after a couple of minutes the idle dropped by half on its own. When I drove it to work this morning it was extremely low on power. I kept it in 3rd gear most of the way (only 10 minutes) never going over 45mph (300-3500 rpms). When I did shift or start in 1st, it had no power, would take extra pressure on the gas to keep it from dying or falling backwards on the hill. Once I got it going though, it would drive ok, but with very limited power. Check engine light: P1507 Idle control system malfunction (fail-safe) That is the code that remains, any thoughts? Throttle Positioning Sensor? adjustment? MAF? This may be connected, maybe not: When first pressing on the gas pedal, its seems like it is sticking for the first bit, then when you penetrate the initial resistance of the pedal, the resistance isn't there. (maybe just a little WD40 on pedal linkage? Thanks for any help! Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [...]Check engine light:P1507 Idle control system malfunction (fail-safe) That is the code that remains, any thoughts? [...] There are a few possibilities, but before we get into some of them, check the neutral switch and wiring to it. See: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/DiagTroubSum04.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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