Found: EA-81 height-adjustable struts (Brat / Hatch)

[casm]

If anyone else is looking for height-adjustable struts for an EA-81 Brat or hatch, I just received a pair of Monroe 71784 struts for my '86 Brat which have the adjusters. Experience with my '85 Brat taught me that the KYB units do not have the adjusters, which sucks if you have a pushbar or just want a little more clearance up front.

 

For what it's worth, I got them from rockauto.com and their interchange guide just lists them as for an '82 to '89 DL or GL with no specific bodystyle given. IIRC, wagons and sedans used a longer-travel strut than the Brat or hatch, so my guess is that they may not work for either of the former.

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes - the Monroe's are well known here. Autozone (cragen) also sells adjustable struts.

 

All EA81's use the same 4WD strut. Travel is not an issue.

 

GD

[casm]

Yes - the Monroe's are well known here.

 

Ah, cool. Didn't know that; I searched by the part number but only turned up one reference to it that didn't mention the adjusters.

 

Autozone (cragen) also sells adjustable struts.

 

Weird - my local Autozone absolutely could (or would) not get them. Maybe it's a regional thing.

 

All EA81's use the same 4WD strut. Travel is not an issue.

 

Good to have clarification

 

One question, though: does anyone have a source for the front coils? I cannot find them anywhere and need to order them Monday from a source that can ship overnight the same day if at all possible.

[GeneralDisorder]

One question, though: does anyone have a source for the front coils? I cannot find them anywhere and need to order them Monday from a source that can ship overnight the same day if at all possible.

 

I've never replaced a set - why would you bother? They are very large for the size of the vehicle and I've never heard of them failing or the spring rate changing.

 

The dealer, or the wanted forum is your best bet. Otherwise I would look up some of the aftermarket spring suppliers.

 

GD

[casm]

I've never replaced a set - why would you bother? They are very large for the size of the vehicle and I've never heard of them failing or the spring rate changing.

 

Which is entirely possible, and I'm not dismissing the possibility. However, from eyeballing them and feeling what's going on with the front end, I suspect they may be somewhat squished. Here's why I'm looking at replacing them:

 

My struts are shot, and appear to have been so for some time. I realise that the struts aren't load-bearing to anywhere near the same degree as the springs, but with them having been gone for as long as they have been it's probably caused the springs to have to work harder under suspension movement. Adding to this, A/C was added in to my Brat at some point, which put additional weight onto the front end; if the springs were already a little tired, that certainly would not have helped. I've also got a full-size spare under there now, and while that's a relatively minor weight addition (as well as being between the axles), it's one more thing to consider.

 

On top of everything else, I'm having the clutch and both front CV axles (one blew out a boot, the other's about to) replaced on Tuesday, so while the tranny's dropped and the axles pulled I may as well have the struts done - and if the struts are coming out, it makes sense to do the coils as well. If my old coils are reusable, great - but if not, I'd rather have new ones on hand to drop in since return shipping on unneeded new ones is cheaper than having to drop it all a second time to replace them if I don't have them.

 

The dealer, or the wanted forum is your best bet. Otherwise I would look up some of the aftermarket spring suppliers.

 

Yeah... Our local dealer is f***ing useless. We've bought two cars from them and they treat us (and their other customers) like crap; we're taking the other two new Subs 40 miles away (next nearest dealer) for service because of their attitude. I'll try the good dealer on Monday, though. If you have recommendations on spring suppliers, I'd really appreciate it as Google's not being particularly helpful in that regard, though I suspect that's down more to me taking some semi-educated stabs at search criteria than anything else.

Edited July 4, 2009 by casm

[GeneralDisorder]

The struts are not at all load-bearing - they are dampener's.

 

All EA81's from 1981 on were "equipped for installtion of AC" - the components of same weigh in at about 40 lbs..... the springs were designed to handle this load as they are not replaced when adding the AC compoenents.

 

I'm afraid you are over-thinking the situation. The springs on EA81's are VERY large for the size of the vehicle. Additionally they are not prone to changes in spring rate - at most with a spring that size you might have an actual failure of the coil. Being hardened spring-steel, they will simply break.

 

They aren't a wear item and my sugestion is that you replace the struts only. I am 100% confident that you will not need springs. Don't waste your money.

 

GD

[casm]

The struts are not at all load-bearing - they are dampener's.

 

Understood, and I really should have phrased my original reply better. What I meant to say was that the struts are always under compression to some degree. While the springs take the actual weight of the vehicle, shot springs will compound strut wear, while worn struts will help (to some degree) to hasten spring wear. I'm not saying that they'll cause it, just that they'll contribute to it.

 

All EA81's from 1981 on were "equipped for installtion of AC" - the components of same weigh in at about 40 lbs..... the springs were designed to handle this load as they are not replaced when adding the AC compoenents.

 

OK, that's good to know as I wasn't previously aware of it. I should probably also point out that I'm looking at this based on past projects with Jeeps where adding heavier bumpers, winches, etc. to the front end required beefier springs or adjustable spacers. I realise that that may not exactly translate out to a strut/coil combination, so I have probably been taking the minor overkill (read: possibly wrong) approach with this a bit.

 

I'm afraid you are over-thinking the situation. The springs on EA81's are VERY large for the size of the vehicle. Additionally they are not prone to changes in spring rate - at most with a spring that size you might have an actual failure of the coil. Being hardened spring-steel, they will simply break.

 

Got it, and thanks. One question: I'm planning on setting the struts to as close as I can get to their maximum height without binding the CVs; I've got a pushbar up front, so as much approach angle as I can get is a good thing. Given that this is what I'm going for, does it still sound reasonable to replace the coils? If they are slightly squished, it's not going to be an issue on-road, but I'd prefer to not have the coil drop out of the mount at the body under full axle droop.

 

They aren't a wear item and my sugestion is that you replace the struts only. I am 100% confident that you will not need springs. Don't waste your money.

 

Fair enough, and I'm starting to come around to this idea. Which brings me on to one last question: is there a height range on the coil I can measure to see if they're within spec? I figure that the distance between the spring mount on the strut and the body should remain pretty constant, so should make for a reasonable indicator of how shot or not the springs are.

[GeneralDisorder]

OK, that's good to know as I wasn't previously aware of it. I should probably also point out that I'm looking at this based on past projects with Jeeps where adding heavier bumpers, winches, etc. to the front end required beefier springs or adjustable spacers. I realise that that may not exactly translate out to a strut/coil combination, so I have probably been taking the minor overkill (read: possibly wrong) approach with this a bit.

 

If you added enough weight then you would need different springs. It doesn't sound like you are adding enough to matter though. Subaru offered all kinds of options including winch bumpers - no differences in spring rate were required or offered. The adjustable strut's can be used to increase the compression of the spring and thus counter any added weight.

 

One question: I'm planning on setting the struts to as close as I can get to their maximum height without binding the CVs; I've got a pushbar up front, so as much approach angle as I can get is a good thing. Given that this is what I'm going for, does it still sound reasonable to replace the coils? If they are slightly squished, it's not going to be an issue on-road, but I'd prefer to not have the coil drop out of the mount at the body under full axle droop.

 

You won't have any issues with cranking the struts up regarding binding of CV's. What you WILL have problems with is terrible camber issues that can't easily be corrected without making camber-adjustable strut tower blocks as part of a lift (if you are installing one).

 

The adjustable struts are only good for about 1". That 1" isn't worth the camber issues or the stiffness it brings with it. I have a 5" lifted wagon and I've had it both up and down on the strut adjusters - they are best left all the way down (stock) and the lift accomplished with blocks instead. There are just too many issues with using the adjusters - they are slow and problematic as the camber is never where you want it if you use them. Invariably they are a hassle so you end up driving on pavement with crappy camber or just don't bother cranking them up off-road.

 

Fair enough, and I'm starting to come around to this idea. Which brings me on to one last question: is there a height range on the coil I can measure to see if they're within spec? I figure that the distance between the spring mount on the strut and the body should remain pretty constant, so should make for a reasonable indicator of how shot or not the springs are.

 

The only spec given in the FSM is for "free length" - with the spring removed from the strut. The spec is 319mm for non-turbo, and 310.5mm for turbo springs.

 

GD

[casm]

If you added enough weight then you would need different springs. It doesn't sound like you are adding enough to matter though. Subaru offered all kinds of options including winch bumpers - no differences in spring rate were required or offered.

 

Good to know. On that note:

 

The adjustable strut's can be used to increase the compression of the spring and thus counter any added weight.

 

This is where some of my overkill thinking comes in.

 

This Brat sits a lot more nose-down than my last one - at least a good 2" or so; it's enough that the nose is below the centreline of the front wheels, and remember that that last Brat had non-adjustable KYB struts. Right now the struts are cranked all the way down, and some person at some point in its life kindly cut the bottoms off of the adjuster bolts so that there's no way to crank the spring mount back up. Also, given that the struts have adjusters, I'm guessing it's had maybe one set of replacement struts (if that) in 23 years and 120,000 miles.

 

You won't have any issues with cranking the struts up regarding binding of CV's. What you WILL have problems with is terrible camber issues that can't easily be corrected without making camber-adjustable strut tower blocks as part of a lift (if you are installing one).

 

No lift planned for this one; I'm keeping it as stock as possible. Basically I just want to compensate for the couple of inches I lose at the front with the pushbar on trails; I'm not running it like I do the Jeep, but I am running it like it was intended for.

 

The adjustable struts are only good for about 1". That 1" isn't worth the camber issues or the stiffness it brings with it. I have a 5" lifted wagon and I've had it both up and down on the strut adjusters - they are best left all the way down (stock) and the lift accomplished with blocks instead. There are just too many issues with using the adjusters - they are slow and problematic as the camber is never where you want it if you use them. Invariably they are a hassle so you end up driving on pavement with crappy camber or just don't bother cranking them up off-road.

 

Hm. Mkay. Food for thought. Thing is, with the ones I'm about to put in all the way down, I suspect I'm still going to have the same nose-down problems since the coils are what keep the nose up.

 

It just occurred to me that I should get some photos of the coils as they are now; it may help to explain my mania for buying new springs, or at least give me a reality check on that particular idea. I'll put it on the list for tomorrow.

 

The only spec given in the FSM is for "free length" - with the spring removed from the strut. The spec is 319mm for non-turbo, and 310.5mm for turbo springs.

 

Given that, is it possible that at some point someone could have put lowering springs in there from another model? I don't know if turbo or EA-82 springs would have that effect, but I'd be interested to know if it's a possibility. Of course, this is assuming that they weren't cut to achieve the same end result, but I'm calling that idea improbable for now.

[GeneralDisorder]

Is it possible that your "nose down" impression is because the rear torsion bar assembly has been cranked *up* thus giving more of a rake than you remember from your previous vehicle?

 

I think this a more likely possiblity than someone having installed lowering springs. Anything is possible and the turbo springs would indeed lower the nose about 1 cm. EA82 springs I don't know about.... I suspect they could be used but I don't know what effects they would have and it would depend on the one's used as there were several more spring rate's availible for the EA82's such as the turbo/RX springs and the XT's.

 

GD

[casm]

Is it possible that your "nose down" impression is because the rear torsion bar assembly has been cranked *up* thus giving more of a rake than you remember from your previous vehicle?

 

I thought about that, but it seems to sit about the same from comparing photos of both.

 

I think this a more likely possiblity than someone having installed lowering springs. Anything is possible and the turbo springs would indeed lower the nose about 1 cm.

 

Agreed on the lowering springs, but that's interesting about the turbo items. The previous owner had picked up a blue Brat for parts which was the recipient of an aborted EJ-22 drivetrain swap - and that particular Brat had started out its life as a turbo, IIRC. Kinda makes some more sense now.

 

EA82 springs I don't know about.... I suspect they could be used but I don't know what effects they would have and it would depend on the one's used as there were several more spring rate's availible for the EA82's such as the turbo/RX springs and the XT's.

 

Fair enough. I'm leaning towards turbo springs being the most likely swap-out possibility at this point, though.

 

In any event, I'll get some photos tomorrow and hopefully make things clearer. As much as I agree that there's no point in replacing them if not completely necessary, they just don't feel right either by eyeball or road feel. Not discounting any of the points you've raised, just clarifying where I'm coming from.

[GeneralDisorder]

I thought about that, but it seems to sit about the same from comparing photos of both.

 

But have you actually checked the torsion bar adjustment to see where it's at?

 

GD

[casm]

But have you actually checked the torsion bar adjustment to see where it's at?

 

GD

 

Well... No I just did a quick check of a couple of threads, and I'm not sure it's something I can do prior to hitting the drop-dead date (Monday) for ordering springs. The vehicle's parked over at the mechanic's about 15 miles away and is completely undriveable right now (dead pressure plate). Any tips for checking it while I'm over there getting pictures tomorrow?

[GeneralDisorder]

You crawl under it and look at the adjustment bolt on the torsion tube assembly. It's not difficult to access.

 

GD

[casm]

You crawl under it and look at the adjustment bolt on the torsion tube assembly. It's not difficult to access.

 

Understood. I think I was trying to figure out how to do the adjustment for the trailing arms - basically, getting ahead of myself.

 

Went over there and took some measurements. Right & left front measured 2.25" tyre top to wheelarch bottom; right & left rear measured 4.5" tyre top to wheelarch bottom. There was approximately 0.9" of thread between the bottom of the torsion bar adjuster bolt head and the torsion bar.

 

I did manage to get photos of the coils, but they turned out to be pretty well useless. I can post them if it helps, but given the angle I had to take them at and the inability to see the camer's screen during that process they're fairly indistinct.

[casm]

GD: just to let you know - I chickened out and ordered the coils from SOA (P/N 721045150 left & right) this morning. They're returnable, so assuming that the current ones are still usable the worst case scenario is that I'm out $25 for overnighting them. I figured that was better than finding out the old ones really are shot and having to open up the front end a second time.

 

I'll know more tomorrow once it's all here; should hopefully have the Brat back on the road by the evening.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

How much are brand new springs for a 30 year old car?

[casm]

How much are brand new springs for a 30 year old car?

 

These were $45 a pop. Not great, but not as horrible as I was expecting. It's in really good shape, though, so I figure it's worth it.

[GeneralDisorder]

Went over there and took some measurements. Right & left front measured 2.25" tyre top to wheelarch bottom; right & left rear measured 4.5" tyre top to wheelarch bottom.

 

Mine ('85 Brat) measures about 2.75" from the tire to the wheel arch in the front, and about 5" in the rear. All of my adjusters are completely down. But I may have different tires than you have as well (which would account for the larger front AND rear measurement). The stance sounds correct with your current springs. Again I highly doubt you will see any change with new springs. If it changed then your camber would be toast and you would wear tires something fierce as happens when you crank up the adjusters.

 

Brat's don't sit flat like the other body styles. Not enough weight in the rear.

 

GD

[casm]

Mine ('85 Brat) measures about 2.75" from the tire to the wheel arch in the front, and about 5" in the rear. All of my adjusters are completely down. But I may have different tires than you have as well (which would account for the larger front AND rear measurement).

 

Makes sense. I'm running stock 185/70R13 tyres all around, so the measurements should be more or less default values.

 

The stance sounds correct with your current springs. Again I highly doubt you will see any change with new springs. If it changed then your camber would be toast and you would wear tires something fierce as happens when you crank up the adjusters.

 

Understood. FWIW, camber was out before this all started; the fronts were noticeably toed-in at the bottom and there was some edge wear you wouldn't expect to see on 2500-mile tyres. Also, a quick eyeball of the new springs vs. old showed about a 1.5-2" height difference with zero compression on either. Granted, the old ones have been compressed for God only knows how long, but it just didn't look quite right when both pairs were sitting on the floor next to each other.

 

In any event, I'll know more tomorrow once it's back from surgery, but I really am wondering if maybe tired springs from a turbo (or something else) weren't installed at some point. This is speculation, but something just doesn't seem right about those old springs compared to the new ones.

 

Brat's don't sit flat like the other body styles. Not enough weight in the rear.

 

With you on that - none of mine ever have sat flat in the back either, but the rear's never been an issue. Neither has the front up until now, come to think of it. Just to clarify, I only care about why the nose is sitting so comparatively low in relation to my last two; pretty sure we're on the same page about that but just wanted to make certain.

Edited July 7, 2009 by casm