kayakpanic Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I was wondering what the possible culprits might be in a '95 Legacy, 140K, that is burning ALOT of oil in the downtubes of the exhaust. Literally smoking on the outsides of both downtubes. Put STOP SMOKE into it reluctantly (only about 6 oz.), which slowed it down a bit and now the check engine light periodically blinks for a minute, then goes back to staying on. With a new ox. sensor about 4K ago, the check engine light never came on until about 1000 miles ago. I am assuming that the oil burn-off/leakage probably ruined it and possibly the cats as well., as an exhaust leak reared its head now too... My guess is that it is the piston rings or something, but this is a guess... anyone else had this happen, or have a guess???:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Sounds like a oil leak on the outside of the motor. Never use that crap additive. Did you replace your PCV valve recently? The PCV valve is important since it makes a vacuum in your oil system so it prevents leaks and it also needs to be moving freely so it doesn't suck oil. You said smoking on the OUTSIDE of the manifold which means there is a oil leak on the OUTSIDE of the motor. A few leaks to name a few valve covers, cam support o ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 a little further explanation: it seems to be leaking from the insides of the pipes and eminating out. there are no wet oil spots on the downtubes. although maybe it is getting more external oil leaked onto it than I thought. also, after driving a few hundred highway miles, there is oil residue on the back liftgate from the oil going through the exhaust. also, according to my dipstick, it is burning oil (leaking into exhaust) because the oil that drips directly onto the ground is not nearly leaking fast enough for how much oil the engine is burning/using... thanks for the PCV pointer, I have not replaced that yet. basically i am trying to get rid of this thing pronto, looking to patch it up. was wondering what a ring job usually costs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Well its mainly labour that is pretty expensive. Try the pcv valve! Hopefully it will cure things, if the ball inside doesn't move it can suck oil straight into the intake. Hopefully the hoses for the pcv lines are not to hard either. Will probably help if you drive around a bit to get the engine bay warm, then try and remove the hose from the pcv valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) oh and the valve cover is leaking, possibly the cam seal, and maybe oil pump area as well... basically I am either going to sell as a project, or put some more money into it and patch it up and sell it. if i put more money (other than above said PCV) it would be to do timing belt, timing cover seals, oil pump seals, cam seal, oil pump gasket... the main thing here is that this project is on the back burner:mad: i got a newer engine for my '94 Loyale, that doesn't aggravate my back injuries as bad as the POS '95 Legacy seats, and will basically be doing the same to it: timing belts, tensioners, cam seal, oil pump seals, oil pan gasket. not yet sure if I want to do the timing/seal job on a vehicle I will sell after doing so...especially if i am only able to get the money out of the new parts and not get paid for the labor! BTW the STOP SMOKE, while reluctantly added to the crankcase, did put a huge dent in the ammount of oil that burning off in the downtubes...but also created the blinking of the check engine light. this worries me into thinking that the Stop Smoke messed with the oil pressure... hopefully the PCV solves the oil blowby, i surely am not going to pony up for a ring job on a vehicle I am immediately going to sell. Edited August 21, 2009 by kayakpanic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Get one of those timing belt kits of ebay only like $100 with tensioners, belt, and some have seals. If your selling it, don't do anything unless the belt is due leave it. Try just running like 10w-40 oil, new pcv, and clean the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 BTW the STOP SMOKE, while reluctantly added to the crankcase, did put a huge dent in the ammount of oil that burning off in the downtubes...but also created the blinking of the check engine light. this worries me into thinking that the Stop Smoke messed with the oil pressure... Get the CEL checked before you go blaming it on a bottle of additive. I think you're making this out to be a much bigger deal that it really is. Smoke doesn't "eminate out" from inside the exhaust. Unless you've got a huge exhaust leak in which case it would be really loud since it would be right next to the engine. If there were a problem with the rings/head gasket/valve stem seals, something of that nature allowing oil to leak into the combustion chamber, there would be a big blue cloud of smoke following you everywhere you drive. It sounds to me like an external leak at the valve cover seals, which might be being made worse by a plugged PCV valve. The PCV/breather system lets excess pressure out of the crankcase. If that pressure has no where to escape to it starts to push oil out through old/worn seals. When you turn the engine off that pressure goes away, and the oil stops leaking. The pipes are still hot so any oil that drips out onto them burns away for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Get one of those timing belt kits of ebay only like $100 with tensioners, belt, and some have seals. If your selling it, don't do anything unless the belt is due leave it. Try just running like 10w-40 oil, new pcv, and clean the motor. Written above is good advise. Subies don't develop bad piston rings causing "blow by" with subsequent oil burning inside the motor. I think your motor is simply leaking oil, and then it is running down the exhaust system where it is burned. The STOP SMOKE simply makes your oil really thick. It doesn't lube the motor as well, so that is why the oil light comes on occasionally. You are using less oil because the thick oil isn't leaking out of your engine as fast. Suggest really cleaning up the motor, source the leaks, then fix them. Then your problem will be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Fairtax4me- thanks for the advice...the more I thought about it last night I was hoping that was the case. That being said, while there is no blue cloud ut the back, there is little splatters all over the back hatch from the oil coming out the pipe. I drive alot of dirt roads, so it looks like speckles all over the back. obviously I am hoping the issue is with the PCV... to explain the oil emmenance: after driving, i will look under the vehicle at the downtubes. there is NO wet spots or oil on the outside of the downtubes. and they smoke...as if the oil is emminating from inside the pipes. I too thought this was not possible. It literally looks like dry ice; smoking. no oil spots or wet spots on the outsides of the pipes. Rooster2- no check oil light has ever appeared. it is the check engine light that was on, that started to intermitently blink for a minute or two. that was the change that occured more frequently aftyer adding the Stop Smoke. Obviously I did no want to add it, but after adding like 8 quarts of oil over 3000 miles, it was a much cheaper quick fix and really considerably reduced the ammount of oil smokage. by this point at least half or more of the oil in the crankcase is 10-40...oh and synthetic blends smell great when the burn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 to explain the oil emmenance: after driving, i will look under the vehicle at the downtubes. there is NO wet spots or oil on the outside of the downtubes. and they smoke...as if the oil is emminating from inside the pipes. I too thought this was not possible. It literally looks like dry ice; smoking. no oil spots or wet spots on the outsides of the pipes. That would be because they're hot and enough of the oil that may have been on them has burned away that you don't see any "wet" spots. It's also less likely that you'll see oil that has dripped from the top, on the bottom of the pipe unless there's a REALLY bad leak. You can see what I'm taking about for yourself if you spray the pipe with wd-40 or just drip some oil from a bottle onto the pipe when its cold. Start the engine and let it warm up while you watch the smoke show. After it gets good and hot you'll see the oil start to disappear. The main source of leaks in that vicinity would be the valve cover gasket, but the cam seals do tend to leak, especially the rear passenger side because it's just an O ring seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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