Input Shaft Bearing or TO Bearing?

[markjw]

1990 Leg Wag 5 speed,bone stock. New to me a week ago.

 

At idle,tranny out of gear,I hear a bad bearing noise. Now that I have the exhaust fixed,I believe I hear it while I'm in gear and accelerating,too.

 

I have read several posts related to these symptoms,most say it's a input shaft bearing,but,at least a few say TO bearing.

 

The bearing noise completly goes away when I push in the clutch pedal.

 

Is there a "final word" on which bearing it most likely is,considering these symptoms?

 

Also,other than the bearing noise,the clutch functions as it should.

[john in KY]

My money is on the TO bearing. Only once had an input shaft bearing failure and it sounded nothing like what you described.

[GeneralDisorder]

Loosen the clutch cable and pull on the fork so the TO bearing isn't touching the pressure plate fingers - if the noise goes away then it's the TO bearing. If it doesn't then it's likely a transmission rear main shaft bearing.

 

GD

[markjw]

Well, the noise didn't go away...That Sucks. I already bought the clutch kit.

Hmmm...Maybe I should do the research first,then buy the parts.

 

I thought something was odd.The clutch is super strong and the car runs great. I was thinking the PO maybe drove around with their foot resting on the clutch pedal wearing out the TO bearing prematurely.

 

I'm all about fixing what I have. But,I read on the board here that the '90 5 speed has bearing issues that the later yrs did not. I can get a JY tranny for about 50 bucks.

 

I'm gonna read a little more and see what my best option might be.

 

Recently,I sold a cream puff '92 awd auto wagon 'cause I wasn't comfortable with all the bad press the 4eat gets. I do like this 5 speed,thou. I'd really like one that didn't sound like a coffee grinder.

 

Thanks for the help...

[GeneralDisorder]

It's not specific to the '90 model year - it's a problem with the 5 speed's in general. When they went away from the 5 speed D/R with it's large front main shaft bearing they began having this problem with the rear main shaft bearings failing.

 

It can be replaced - the EJ 5 speed's are simple transmissions. Just split the case, pull out the main shaft and press new bearings on.

 

GD

[idosubaru]

can you return the clutch kit you bought?

 

the 4EAT is not a bad transmission, they get terrible press in car "club" settings because a lot of those kinds of folks prefer manuals. i've seen as many problems with manual trans as auto's. the bearings, clutches, clutch forks, throw out bearings, clutch clips, synchro's, internal issues.

[markjw]

can you return the clutch kit you bought?

 

 

 

Probably..But I ordered it online.And,I'm lazy. I'll prolly just hang onto it.When I get this tranny ready to install after repairs,I'll more than likely install it,too.

 

I don't know how long the car was driven around with the bearing noise. I was at work when it popped up on Craigs. I had my wife go get it for me so I didn't really get a chance to talk to the PO.

 

I will probably drain the gear oil and take a look at that. I would much rather fix this one,ya know. Too many times I have ran out and bought replacement engines for different cars,just to realize I could have repaired what I had for the same or less money and time.

 

Can someone suggest a one stop shopping source for the bearings I will need?

 

I found the front main bearing and seal online,but I cant find/don't recognize the others I will need.

[markjw]

I drained out a quart of gear oil into a antifreeze jug I cut in half. I took a couple pic's. Anybody care to take a look? I guess what I'm wondering is,since I have no idea how long the PO drove the car around with the bad bearing,how contaminated is the tranny?

 

It actuallu doesn't look too bad to me. There isn't alot of grit,but the color of the oil looks kinda silvery or something.

 

I drove the car around today,but this is the first quart out of the gearbox after sitting about three hours.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

The silver color to the gear oil is definitely bearing material. Seen it before. That's a classic rear main shaft bearing failure I'm sure. Tear it down and you'll see.

 

GD

[Fairtax4me]

That's exactly how the fluid looked in the Toyo Kogyo I just got for my Ranger. The input shaft bearing on it is shot, like 3/16" play at the end of the shaft.

You definitely have a worn out bearing in the that one. The one in question is about $50 IIRC from a Subaru dealer. I had bought one for my 96 because I've got some noise under acceleration, but I found the main bearing to be tight and rolled freely. I took it back, but I wish I had written down the part number and maker of the bearing. Lots of times you can find the same bearings elsewhere with a lower price tag than the dealer. If you have the time you can tear it down and check all the part numbers on the input and output shafts and probably get all new bearings for half what a dealer would charge if you know where to look. But they are all available from Subaru if you don't want to mess with sourcing them on your own.

 

This is a good thread for disassembly. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=90182&

 

There are some others floating around. I know a member here Lostinthe202 has done the bearing replacement successfully. You can probably send him a PM asking for specifics. I thought he had a thread about it somewhere but I can't seem to find it.

[markjw]

Rear Main Shaft Bearing. No question about it. It's rough when I spin it and it wiggle's around alot! I gotta find a new one now. None of the chain stores have it. I'll probably end up going to the Dealership. Probably a month out,thou. We'll see.

 

I haven't gotten the bearing off the shaft,yet.Looks like a job for the machine shop. Maybe I'll try and get that big nut off the back end of the shaft. Maybe I can see some bearing numbers then.

 

The front bearing had Very little play.I mean hardly detectable.The front seal wasn't leaking either.

 

There were No TO bearing clips to be found.The TO bearing was just riding on the shaft,wearing a nice groove into it. I think I saw a repair kit for that,but I really need to find some clips!

 

I did find the front bearing and front seal.Orderd today arrive tomorrow. But,I have no idea where to get the big one in the back.

 

Here's a few pic's. I followed Gloyale's write up. It went really smooth. (thank's,Gloyale) I had a heck of a time seperating the case's,until I realized I needed to drift the locating pin's back into the other case half.

 

Thing's came apart very easily then.

 

What do you think about the groove in the TO bearing shaft? Should I be concerned?

 

Also,any tips on taking the big nut off the end of the shaft? Should I let the machine shop do that? I kinda need to see that bearing,thou.I need some numbers off of it.

 

Thanks for all the tips and help...

 

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Remove the bearing and take it to a bearing supplier. It's a 3000 series double-row angular contact bearing I would assume. They can cut the groove for the locating ring.

 

Bearing supplier is going to be a lot cheaper than the dealer most likely.

 

GD

[Fairtax4me]

You can lock the shaft in a vise between two blocks of wood. (credit for that idea goes to Lostinthe202) Knock out the staked sections of the nut with a punch and remove it with a breaker bar and a 35mm socket I think it was.

The 5th gear will need to be pulled off, then you can pull the bearing off with a large 2 or 3 jaw puller.

[markjw]

I ended up taking the shaft to a transmission shop on South Tacoma Way. I bought everything I needed at the Subaru Dealer in Tacoma,just up the street from the tranny shop. It all worked out pretty slick,really.And,I got it all done on a Saturday.

 

I learned a couple things from the guy at the tranny shop. The most significant thing was,there is a couple shims on the back side of the case,sandwitched in between the uhhhh...Anyway,look at the first pic.

 

The plate to the left of the Lower bearing,it has two bolt holes showing,in front of that plate is two very thin,metal shims. A little smaller than a slice of bread. The guy at the shop says to loosen the other two bolts holding that plate,pull the whole shaft aft a 1/8th inch, so when you put the case halves back together,you don't bend the shims. Apparently that's a bad thing.

 

Pic two shows the other two bolts that need to be loosend. The first two are,of course,removed in order to seperate the case halves.

 

The other thing I learned was to put the Big nut back on the end of the main shaft with a 1/2 inch inpact gun. Let the nut bottom out and hit it good a couple times with the gun,and that's how tight it's suppose to be. I used some red locktight on the threads. I also peened the jam tabs back over.Hopefully it'll stay on there.

 

I'm not done yet.I have the tranny back in,but now I have all the stuff to put back on and hook up. I'm doing rear struts as well. So far so good.

 

I spent $140 at the dealership for the big back bearing,the small front bearing and the front seal.I got a couple TO bearing clips there too.

 

[markjw]

One more thing. If you do have to drift out the rusty locating pin's in order to separate the case,Be sure and drive them back into the other case half BEFORE you tighten any case bolts. Trust me on this.

[markjw]

All is well. The wagon runs like a top. Thanks again,USMB...Hey GD,that hammer to the door latch trick worked slick. Too bad we can't use hammers more often to "fix" our subi's.