Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Camber....


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:46 PM

I was wondering if the Cv axkes were long enough to extend the lower control arms to fix Camber....?

#2 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,292 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:26 PM

I was wondering if the Cv axkes were long enough to extend the lower control arms to fix Camber....?


no

#3 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:43 PM

[IMG]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e174/speedo12_2008/mms_picture8.jpg[/IMG]

I was thinking off just dropping with from the top so i could fix the camber.... is this the best way to do it

#4 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,292 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:03 PM

Are the lift blocks camber corrected? The top of the strut should tilt in to correct this problem

#5 Scott in Bellingham

Scott in Bellingham

    Lets go wheelin!!

  • Members
  • 3,552 posts
  • Bellingham

Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:42 AM

camber can be fixed on top extension block , whats the lift? at strut and at engine crossmember?

#6 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:11 PM

yeah i dropped it from the bottum of the strut.... i was thinking about taking 3 inchs off the bottom of my strut and putting thos 3 inches on the top with the correct angle to finx my camber.... would this work....?

#7 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,292 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 13 September 2010 - 03:30 PM

Yup it should!!

#8 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:34 PM

is it 15 degree angle on the drop blocks to correct my camber.....?

#9 987687

987687

    Rally Suby!

  • Members
  • 3,470 posts
  • Northern Maine

Posted 15 September 2010 - 07:01 AM

It's about 7.5 deg. of camber adjustment per inch of lift.

#10 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 16 September 2010 - 12:57 AM

o ok thanks that helps!

#11 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 29 September 2010 - 01:50 AM

I ended up dropping my front and inch to take care of some of my camber :)

#12 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 8,563 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 29 September 2010 - 09:38 AM

It's about 7.5 deg. of camber adjustment per inch of lift.


NOPE.

The angle of the mounting in the body of the car is fixed. Why would there be a variation on angle? so on a 10" lift I'd need 75 degrees? think about that one.


No, The angle stays the same, 1 inch or 20.

and it really needs to be 16-18 degrees for a standard "top" lift

Now, Subi4x4, if you wnat to keep 3 inches of lower extension, and build 3" tops, I would suggest an even more serious angle, perhaps 22-24 degrees......this means you wil have some BFH work to do on the inner towers.

Honestly, though, I'd just make some true 6 inch tops, with correct angle (16-18) degrees

Edited by Gloyale, 29 September 2010 - 09:41 AM.


#13 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:40 PM

But yes only having a inch of angle on my cv axles will give me lets camber.... then having two.....

#14 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:43 PM

^ is this correct....? it seemed to minimize my camber alot....

#15 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 8,563 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 29 September 2010 - 10:19 PM

I assume you mean subframe blocks relative to Strut extension? yes, 1 inch will give slightly better camber with your extensions, but doesn't solve it.

See, what you've done is extend the length of 2 sides of a triangle. This changes ALL the geometry. Without lengthening the third side, the angle that the angles must change. This is potentially is putting a massive side load to the outside on the stuts and mounts. The new angles don't match the cast angle in the knuckle. I could see the strut buckling under, espescially if wheeling.

What should be done with a lift, is to drop the entire triangle, unmodified by the amount of the lift you want. This is why making a block that moves the upper mount directly, vertically down, and blocking the subframe the same amount, maintains the original geometry.

This is all theoretical really.....there may well be board members who have done 6" bottom extension without issue. they may want to chime in.

#16 Bubba3

Bubba3

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Sedro_Woolley

Posted 30 September 2010 - 01:27 PM

Thats pretty funny reid since I Bought your car I have been wondering how to fix camber so it quits eating my $500 tires and im tired of rotating every week. With your lift on it with the three bolt extensions on the top of the strut how what would you suggest I do on the camber?

#17 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:19 PM

Bubba i wish i knew how to help you i am in the process of figuring out a better way my self i will let you know or just get the blocks made with the correct angle that will fix it

Reid

#18 Bubba3

Bubba3

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Sedro_Woolley

Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:25 PM

Ya im thinkin about contacting sjr and gettin some three inch blocks just for the struts, I think they are pretty inexpensive. How big are you goin on your new soob dude?

Bubba

#19 True2Blue

True2Blue

    SU<3ARU

  • Members
  • 776 posts
  • Belfair WA

Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:13 PM

It's about 7.5 deg. of camber adjustment per inch of lift.


Wrong

for the camber to be corrected you would need stock specs for:

length of a-arm/trailing arm

then the lift in inches

1 degree is normal for most cars to gain/lose due to acceleration/deceleration. positive .5 goes to the front and negitive .5 goes to the rear and accel and vise versa... since your going positive.... if you lift your rig 4" at with an a-arm measuring 28.65"long (30") your gain it 2 degrees per inch

gain in wheel circumference is gain in camber when the camber degree is + or - .5 degrees or more

28.65" long arm = 2 degree gain/loss
this will give you an awesome starting point for figuring out camber. after a certain degree caster comes into play but very slightly. too much camber = change in caster too much of those two = change in toe

Edited by True2Blue, 02 October 2010 - 07:39 PM.


#20 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 8,563 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 02 October 2010 - 11:03 AM

1 degree is normal for most cars to gain/lose due to acceleration/deceleration. positive .5 goes to the front and negitive .5 goes to the rear and accel and vise versa... since your going positive.... if you lift your rig 4" at with an a-arm measuring 28.65"long (30") your gain it 2 degrees per inch


You don't get it. You're not accounting for the fact that the subframe drops equally to the blocks. If done right, there is NO CHANGE to the arm relative to the subframe.

When you cut blocks for a lift kit, it DOESN"T matter how big you go on the lift. You match the angle of the mounting plate in the car relative to vertical.

IF you match that angle, the tube will sit excactly vertical, and the geometry doens't change.

2 inch or 12 inch or 20 inch. Angle stays the same.

16 degrees for EJ (Legacy, Imp, Forrester)

17 degrees for EA82

14 degrees for EA81

22 Degrees for EA71

Edited by Gloyale, 02 October 2010 - 11:06 AM.


#21 True2Blue

True2Blue

    SU<3ARU

  • Members
  • 776 posts
  • Belfair WA

Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:49 PM

You don't get it. You're not accounting for the fact that the subframe drops equally to the blocks.


you gotta be ************tin me: i dont get it?

i do though, very well. IF they (a -arm and strut, or trailing arm and strut) are spaced the same 4" on strut and 4" on arm (cross member) then there is no change in camber just ride height. overall suspension clearance is gained with bigger wheels . if that were the case (everything was lowered equally) there would be no added positive camber! or post about fixing it......... but there is soooooo heres your solution for finding the angle

first is for the non math loving folk...

use your front driver side wheel

get a true (straight) edge and a protractor

Vertically place the straight edge on the wheel (id does not have to be centered just flat against the wheel)

Take your protractor and place it flat on the ground with its origin at the bottom of your flat edge.

90 degrees is 0 camber
ONLY use 0-90 when figuring.

positive camber looks like this \ /

negative... / \

in your case its positive...

there is an easier way no ruler or protractor just a tape measure and calculator

measure from the top 'outside' face of the wheel to the ground. mark it. i use a square looks like a L.

then measure horizontally from the bottom outside face of the wheel (where rubber meets the ground) along the ground to the mark you just made

now devide the horizontal measurement by the vertical (in degree mode) and what your given is an inverse tangent. your camber angle...

can post pics of process if need be.

now you know your camber angle in degrees... How the F*** do you fix it right...

well if you lengthen your arms youll be zeroing the camber out but important things wont stretch with it.

the easiest way i can see this problem being resolved without leveling out your cross member is to re construct your towers (unless your tower spacers are not maxed out yet and you have play). bringing the top of your struts inward. there will be extreme angles on ball joint and axle joints but your tires wont touch clap if you catch air :lol:

Edited by True2Blue, 02 October 2010 - 12:53 PM.


#22 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 8,563 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 02 October 2010 - 06:01 PM

you gotta be ************tin me: i dont get it?

i do though, very well. IF they (a -arm and strut, or trailing arm and strut) are spaced the same 4" on strut and 4" on arm (cross member) then there is no change in camber just ride height. overall suspension clearance is gained with bigger wheels . if that were the case (everything was lowered equally) there would be no added positive camber! or post about fixing it......... but there is soooooo heres your solution for finding the angle

first is for the non math loving folk...

use your front driver side wheel

get a true (straight) edge and a protractor

Vertically place the straight edge on the wheel (id does not have to be centered just flat against the wheel)

Take your protractor and place it flat on the ground with its origin at the bottom of your flat edge.

90 degrees is 0 camber
ONLY use 0-90 when figuring.

positive camber looks like this \ /

negative... / \

in your case its positive...

there is an easier way no ruler or protractor just a tape measure and calculator

measure from the top 'outside' face of the wheel to the ground. mark it. i use a square looks like a L.

then measure horizontally from the bottom outside face of the wheel (where rubber meets the ground) along the ground to the mark you just made

now devide the horizontal measurement by the vertical (in degree mode) and what your given is an inverse tangent. your camber angle...

can post pics of process if need be.

now you know your camber angle in degrees... How the F*** do you fix it right...

well if you lengthen your arms youll be zeroing the camber out but important things wont stretch with it.

the easiest way i can see this problem being resolved without leveling out your cross member is to re construct your towers (unless your tower spacers are not maxed out yet and you have play). bringing the top of your struts inward. there will be extreme angles on ball joint and axle joints but your tires wont touch clap if you catch air :lol:


Man you are making this hard.......

But check out the part in red.......

If you set the angle of your Strut Top Block to match the mounting plate in the vehicle then the TOPS NEVER MOVE OUT............Strut top mounts go exactly straight down, they stay the same width apart from eachother, and if the crossmember drop is equal, nothing in the triangle changes.

The angle is 17 degrees for an EA82.......no matter what height.

the only reason this poster and anyone else EVER has issues with camber is when they simply extend the strut length, via extending the bottom, or using top blocks with no angle. In this case the former.

#23 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:59 PM

Bubba i wish i knew how to help you i am in the process of figuring out a better way my self i will let you know or just get the blocks made with the correct angle that will fix it

Reid


Its a 9 inch

#24 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:01 AM

Man you are making this hard.......

But check out the part in red.......

If you set the angle of your Strut Top Block to match the mounting plate in the vehicle then the TOPS NEVER MOVE OUT............Strut top mounts go exactly straight down, they stay the same width apart from eachother, and if the crossmember drop is equal, nothing in the triangle changes.

The angle is 17 degrees for an EA82.......no matter what height.

the only reason this poster and anyone else EVER has issues with camber is when they simply extend the strut length, via extending the bottom, or using top blocks with no angle. In this case the former.


Yes but i dont want to run 9 inch top blocks that wont work so well....

#25 88Subi4x4

88Subi4x4

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • Everett

Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:05 AM

and yes i realize that the only way to fix it is move the top of the strut inward... and the best way to do it would be top angled blocks! but dropping my struts 9 inches they wont fit correct they hit... but i got my camber figured out thanks for the ideas!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users