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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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The 83 Turbo Wagon - transmission bad?


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24 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_GeneralDisorder_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 05:54 PM

Well - I took the governor out and cleaned it up as perscribed in the USRM. When I was done all the parts worked beutifully. The gear wasn't worn at all, and I used a mirror to look in the hole, and that gear looked good too. When the governor goes in, it's snug, and doesn't turn, so I assume the gears are meshing properly. I topped off the fluid which was very low, but did not smell burnt. Still nothing. The weird part is it will go into reverse, but no forward gears at all. It doesn't even sound like it's trying to go into gear. I really don't know what to do next except replace the tranny. Anyone got any ideas? The engine runs really nice - just a bit of noise from the PS pump, and some coolant leakage from the water pump. Those shouldn't be hard, so I'm focusing on the tranny first. If I can't fix that, then the rest doesn't matter.

GD

#2 Guest_GeneralDisorder_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 06:02 PM

Ok - one thing I should mention - he (the previous owner) said that he was driving down the freeway, and it started making a grinding noise. It got worse as he kept going, and finally he heard a pop, and thats when he lost forward gears. I was thinking maybe it ate the governor gear, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

GD

#3 Guest_JwX_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 07:49 PM

check the shift linkage(s)?

#4 Guest_ShawnW_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 07:49 PM

Did you check the front differential fluid?

Kindof sounds like symptoms of a bad diff. The functioning reverse has me wondering though.

#5 Guest_GeneralDisorder_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 08:26 PM

Ok - so I dropped the pan - and there's gear teeth all over the place. I'm thinking maybe I was wrong about the inside governor gear. I looked at it, though a crappy mirror, and I could see teeth, but they looked kindof shallow, and rounded off. I figured tho that if I couldn't turn the governor, that it must be meshing.... so the gear was alright. But maybe I didn't try hard enough. It looks like about the right amount of material for a set of gear teeth off a gear that size tho. So would that make it work in reverse, but no other gear, if the governor were not being turned? I don't know enough about how auto trannies work to detemine this, and my underwear manual says "take it to a shop" hehe.

On the diff - it has fluid, not much, but it's there. And the tranny wasn't as low on fluid as I had originally thought - it was maybe only 1 quart low (capacity = 4.2 qt). doesn't smell burnt, and the tranny looks nice inside - except for the gear teeth in the pan of course.

<img src="http://www.ultimatevirgin.com/cropperr/83_turbo_wagon/nasty_tranny_pan.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Please help me save her:

<img src="http://www.ultimatevirgin.com/cropperr/83_turbo_wagon/83_turbo_wagon1.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

GD

#6 Guest_Flowmastered87GL_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 08:59 PM

Oh well, time to make it a 5 speed :evil:

#7 Guest_GeneralDisorder_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 09:04 PM

Could do a 5 speed, but what would it take to replace the gear? Anyone have any idea?

GD

#8 Guest_Turbone_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 09:37 PM

GD, I have a tranny for that car. It just needs a gov( I took it to put in my coupe). As far as I know it works cause we drove it onto a dolly.
Rob

#9 Guest_OH Noah_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 09:54 PM

Since the governor is on the differential case, it seems unlikely that all those teeth could make their way back to the main tranny pan. I didn't think there were any passages large enough for such things to pass back and forth, but then I've never split a tranny to see either. I guess what I'm getting at is that it seems more likely to me that there are major transmission gears broken in your tranny.

#10 Guest_GeneralDisorder_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:03 PM

Well - the gov on this one seems fine, and I just cleaned it up - and it must have one tough gear on it too, since it tore the drive gear up like a wet napkin :eek: . What do you want for that tranny? I could come up there and get it with my new BRAT that I got from Eric :D

I bet that was your backup tranny eh? How about I give you the old tranny out of this wagon I have here. Not as part of payment or anything, but just so you have a source of parts still, or like I said - maybe that gear can be replaced. I found a site that sells repair manuals for the Subaru 3AT and 4AT trannies - and they claim they have parts too. I will call them tommarow, and see what I can find out:

<a href="http://www.txchange.com/atsg.htm" target="top">www.txchange.com/atsg.htm</a>

It's a local number (Portland), so maybe they have that part, and a manual to show what needs to be done. That's what I was going to do anyway. I really want this car to be a success for my friend - he's a good guy - Eric met him last night in fact - and the baby too. I'm afraid we had her out pretty late, but he said she's fine, and slept in my BRAT the whole way home! hehe. I'm letting him drive the BRAT for now, till I get the turbo wagon off jackstands.

GD

#11 Guest_GeneralDisorder_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:13 PM

Well - if the gov ran off the diff, wouldn't it be running in 80w-90 instead of ATF? But I do see your point - there would have to be a passage big enough for the shrapnel to get back to the pan. My guess is there is room - the ATF has to run through all those passages, and then has to drip back to the pan somehow. There was plenty of ATF on the gov, so It seems that it must be running in it, and probably is lubricating that gear as well. Just a brain dump of my thought proccess for you - have I made any incorrect assumptions? It's been known to happen on occasion..... :rollin:

GD

#12 Guest_Turbone_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:13 PM

Well the tranny is still in the car but the engine is out, so removal should be easy. I dont want anything for it, the car is going to be cut up. I'm going to be putting a 5spd in the coupe, it doesnt deserve an AT, so please dont bring me a junk one<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D">
Rob

#13 Guest_GeneralDisorder_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:23 PM

WOW! You just made Josh's day!

I'll fire you off an email, and we can talk particulars. Thanks from both of us.

GD

#14 Guest_Flowmastered87GL_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:36 PM

ya I need to get off my butt and get up there and start chopping off parts. I will give you a call tomorrow or something after I make sure Jason can find his sawzall.

How far is the wagon from AC power? (how many extension cords to I need to bring)

#15 Guest_ShawnW_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 11:13 PM

Can somebody chop the battery tray for me please?

#16 Guest_Turbone_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 11:17 PM

GD - glad to help someone in need.
FM - dont worry about power, its there.
Shawn - sorry, the tray came out awhile ago and its waiting to go in my Hatch<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">
Rob

#17 Guest_slagathor1_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 01:18 AM

For what it's worth, here's what i've learned lately from tha tranny probs i've been dealing with of & on for about a month now..Hopefully GD or one of you will benefit from the knowledge i've unfortunately obtained..

Mine is a 92' Loyale 4WD A/T..
When my governor gear shredded it's teeth,the tranny would not shift out of first gear while in drive..I still had 2nd gear though if I shifted the tranny down to 2nd & also had reverse..
I replaced the governor with a perfect one from my retired 89' DL 2WD & everything was fine for about a week until it shredded also!!
Turns out, the shaft inside the tranny that apparently drives the governor gear & probably other things too, has it's teeth shredded also & that's why it's eating governors..

The tranny shop has a new shaft on order for me right now & it's gonna cost around $160!!:eek:
That's not including $30 for a new governor & $100 for a gasket/seal kit..
I'm pretty confident that will fix my problems & I can finally get my new toy on the road for good!!

Tony in S. Illinois

89' DL retired
92' Loyale 4WD

#18 n3glv

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 04:23 AM

Ahhhh, finally.
I have been having the EXACT symptoms slagathor1 has in
my 1983 M41 (gl 2wd, 150k+ miles).
I had read a post somewhere here (archive?) that a fellow
had the exact same model, and problem, had changed the
modulator with no luck. He said he was going to do the gov
next. He never came back!!! (Did it fix or did he replace the
whole mess?)
I have purchased a new drive for the gov ($12 from a national
place that's hq here in Pittsburgh.)
Was wondering if I could use a steel drive gear (turbo) on
a non-turbo 2wd trans? Was unsure so I got the plastic,
after as far as I know it's never been replaced before and
if I get anywhere near 150,000 miles on the new one that's
just fine with me! ;-)
In any case, now that I have confirmation that it's a gov
problem, I will do it tomorrow!
Hopefully it won't eat the new one!

Btw, on the rebuild archive I saw and everywhere else,
it never mentions that (at least on my gl) all you have to
do is remove the spare tire and reach into the area of the
AT and the gov cover is right there above the CAT.
(would have jumped into the job earlier if I knew that)

If this does fix it I think I'll also flush the fluid etc.

#19 asavage

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 12:25 AM

Well - I took the governor out and cleaned it up as perscribed in the USRM


Just where is this info?

I went here:
http://www.usmb.net/...0d9b8.15492800/
but no mention of governor. So I used the "Search" for governor, got zero hits.

My '93 Loyale 4WD 3AT has several times stayed in 2nd gear when I pull up to a stop, and then when you press on the accel, it downshifts into 1st and you take off. I've already flushed the AT and replaced the filter, so I'm hoping to find a cure.

BTW, I had the Devil's own time finding the correct AT pan gasket for the 3sp. The one I've got has a very shallow dogleg on one side (about 1/4") and a larger divot on the other side. The pan gasket the parts stores kept trying to sell me didn't have the dogleg, and without it the gasket for sure wouldn't seal. It figures that both the correct gasket and the incorrect one both have 14 bolt holes.

I couldn't get that gasket separately, but I found the correct filter kit that contains it: ATP B-154. The ATP catalog's picture is extremely misleading (wrong aspect ratio, and slanted ends!) but the gasket and filter are correct.

#20 Hondasucks

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 03:01 AM

See if you have forward gears in manual low ("1" on the gear selector) if so your one-way clutch is shot. If you have NO forward gears, than I would suspect your one-way clutch is bad.
I don't know where those gear teeth came from, it's weird that one grenaded gear would cause no forward function.. yet still allow it to move in reverse.... Usually when a gear grenades you lose EVERTHING...
Either way, I'd get a new tranny, but I'd like to take the old one apart and figure out what caused it to fail.

#21 n3glv

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 11:59 AM

I just read about the fellow who's trans does not go down to
1st at a light. Mine frequently does this same trick.
I think it's a vaccume <sp> issue. Possibly a lazy modulator.
On the pan gasket issue, I ended up buying both of the gaskets
that the rebuild supply place had, like $3 each.
You can get things from them from vendors all over the usa,
their home office happens to be about 4 miles from me.
Their name is Aceomatic Recon. Google should lead you to their
webpage etc. (Mine is M41 trans and they seem to have all the
parts, would have to get a gasket kit just to get gov gasket so
RTV to the rescue)
Thanks again all for all the good info, talk to you later.

icq 6570500
AIM ivoryman1963
YAHOO omega1963

#22 asavage

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 02:30 PM

Originally posted by n3glv
I just read about the fellow who's trans does not go down to
1st at a light. Mine frequently does this same trick.
I think it's a vaccume <sp> issue. Possibly a lazy modulator.



While the modulator does affect shift points and clutch apply pressure, it doesn't (shouldn't) have any effect at a stop: even with the vaccum line pulled off completely, or power braking, the trans should shift to 1st if the wheels aren't moving.

I think it might be a lazy governor, which is why I'm trying to find out where this "archive" or "manual article" on the malfunctioning governor is. Anybody care to enlighten me?

#23 Turbone

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 02:34 PM

It looks like the article hasnt made the transfer yet from the old USRM. There were alot of things in there, and the folks doing the transfer are still working on it.
Rob

#24 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 06:35 PM

Hey Hondasucks - if you want that blown AT, you can have it. I'm not even sure we'll be using the good one I got from Turbone, as my friend's wife sold a very valuable peice of furniture, and now their plan is to buy a little newer used car, so the Turbo wagon may never move again, and probably will be parted, since I have no use for it really (except as parts :brow:).

GD

#25 asavage

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Turbone
It looks like the article hasnt made the transfer yet from the old USRM.
Rob



OK . . . pretend I don't know what's gone before: I assume there was previous hosting on ezboard, is there some way of accessing it still?




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