Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

VDC.....how is it?


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 6,363 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:22 PM

So I got a screaming deal on a BH Outback with a 4-cyl. I'm debating what to do with it, specifically.....I'm debating whether it's worth it to flip it and hold out for what we really want, which is an H6 version.


So, how is it? Is it really intrusive? Can it be disabled? When I un-plug an ABS sensor to disable the ABS system, will the VDC system freak out (I assume it won't work at that point).

I see on cars101.com that the VDC models have VTD (variable torque distribution) AWD....so if I disable all the aids, will it screw up the AWD?



My girlfriend and I both have a lot of experience ice racing, and can control the car in a slide, so I would very much prefer that it didn't have any of that garbage. But if a VDC model could be modified to work (like swapping in cloth interior), that would drastically open up our options for new cars.

#2 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,822 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

Get an LL bean H6

 

No VDC, and dual sunroofs



#3 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 6,363 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:22 PM

Get an LL bean H6
 
No VDC, and dual sunroofs

The VDC ones had the dual sunroofs too.

And at least there's a prayer of getting one with a gray interior. Then I'd only have to swap out the seats and door cards, instead of the entire.

#4 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 21,804 posts
  • Midatlantic

Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:26 PM

2001's have a VDC OFF switch, seems like the 4WD should still operate in some capacity, if not fully?  check the owners manual for the VDC switch section of a 2001?  my guess is you can do some simple wiring of a 2002-2004 to mimic the 2001 operation or simply swap a 2001 ECU into a 2002-2004.

 

haven't looked into the VTD but seems like option should exist to splice into the wiring and control the 4WD yourself as folks have done either with the duty C or presslab dialing it in his more sophisticated set up.  won't take you long to figure out if that's an option...someone will pipe up and you're more versed in wiring/trans than me.

 

for the ones i've seen - disabling ABS disabled the VDC. not sure if there's other modes where the ABS can be disabled and retain VDC, my guess is no.

 

swap an H6 into the car you just got and use the EJ25 to flip another one?

 

sounds like you're bent on not running with VDC, and i think you're right on target, i think you'd thoroughly hate it.  it's most noticable response is cutting throttle immediately so you have no throttle control...i dislike it when it does it on the back, unmarked, gravel-ish back roads i drive everyday.  it does seem mildly helpful in some really bad traction situations with the immediate engine braking.  but i still think you'd hate it.



#5 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 21,804 posts
  • Midatlantic

Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:42 PM

oh, and VDC models have side impact air bags and the "exploding" one-time use seat belts. if you install non-side-airbag seats then all of that, including the front air bags, will be disabled.  my guess is you don't care about that either, but now you know.

 

could probably swap in a non-side air bag SRS computer and retain your front air bag mechanisms.

 

you make a couple comments about gray cloth interior as if that's crucial...explain so we're on the same page?  you require that or need to swap a certain one in...

 

i thought all VDC's are leather...actually i thought all 02-04 H6's were leather, but that's easily discernable on cars101.  mine are tan and black leather and all my friends are one of those as well.  i looked for a set for the XT6 (just for the electric functions) and couldn't find any gray ones, ended up getting a tan set and never installed them.



#6 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 6,363 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:23 PM

Yea, we have stability control on our company vehicles at work, it drives me nuts. They have an "off" button, but it's not completely "off". But, like I said, I'll be pulling an ABS sensor to kill that system, so maybe it won't be an issue, as long as the AWD system works like it should at that point.

 

 

 

"Require" isn't the correct word. But....that said, I HATE leather, and with the amount/type of stuff that gets hauled in my cars, I worry that stains would be a major issue with tan/beige. Also, I think the LLBean 2-tone is hideous...lol

 

 

According to Cars101....

 

Part of 2003, there was an H6 wagon, which was a base Outback with the H6, and a couple other things (climate control, leather steering wheel, body color mirrors/handles). This model with a blue or silver exterior had a grey cloth interior. I think this is exactly what I'm looking for, but a pretty small window, and I'd like to open up my options.

 

2004 had a similar option, called the 35th anniversary edition, but this was only available with beige cloth.

 

 

The VDC models with black or titanium (03-04) exterior had grey leather interior. This would mean just a seat and door card swap to ditch the leather. A beige interior car would mean at the very least carpet swap just to be functional, and other interior panels and possibly dash to match.

 

The seat airbag thing is very interesting. Keeping the front airbags working is important. So that's something to think about.

 

 

 

 

The engine swap option has crossed my mind. And I haven't ruled it out....but I'm not loving it. Don't really need another project car. Don't really want my girlfriend's DD to be a swap car. Can't really afford the down time.


Edited by Numbchux, 23 June 2013 - 09:37 PM.


#7 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 21,804 posts
  • Midatlantic

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:57 PM

okay for the SRS system to work you'll need to:
1.  retain the seat belt pretensioners (matching gray ones need to be the SRS pretensioner-one-time-use seat belt, not a regular seat belt).

2.  retain the side impact air bags in the cloth seats.

 

or ignore both of those and try to swap in a control unit from a vehicle without side impact air bags or seat belt pretensioners.  the control unit is under the radio and held in place by security torx bits.

 

that's funny, i hate cloth, leather is more functional for me...leave windows down, go swimming, fishing, hunting, get all greasy, wet or muddy, kids, spill a drink...no big deal, wipes right up.



#8 CNY_Dave

CNY_Dave

    03 LL Bean H6

  • Members
  • 1,731 posts
  • Near Cortland NY

Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:49 PM

I'm going to try putting the VTD center diff and lockup clutch into my '03 LL bean, 55% to the rear and no stability computer minding my business...



#9 hankosolder2

hankosolder2

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 709 posts
  • Chicago

Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:32 PM

Re: airbags. You could, at your own risk, replace any airbag inflator with a resistor of equivalent value, and the computer will have no way of knowing that there's not an airbag present. So, install the non side airbag seats, solder resistors to the side airbag wiring harness and your front bags should still deploy in a crash, and you won't have any warning lights on the dash.  (This is based on the assumption that the airbags use conventional inflators and nothing too exotic. I know some newer vehicles have multi-stage inflators which might be harder to simulate.)

 

It seems _really_ stupid to have the logic shut down all the airbags if there's a single fault in any of the systems. So, the clockspring for the driver's bag fails, and the passenger has to eat the dashboard in a crash because the passenger's bag won't deploy even though it could? That's moronic.



#10 CNY_Dave

CNY_Dave

    03 LL Bean H6

  • Members
  • 1,731 posts
  • Near Cortland NY

Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:36 PM

It could be the system has the ability to detect 'a' problem, but can't adequately diagnose the specific problem.



#11 hankosolder2

hankosolder2

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 709 posts
  • Chicago

Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:18 PM

That makes sense logically Dave, but I think you can read out the SRS trouble codes even in a car as old as '98 Legacy (it will blink the SRS light to show the codes when you connect some test pins under the dash) so the SRS computer _can_ identify specific faults. In this day and age of inexpensive electronic hardware, IMO there's really no excuse for having a complete safety system shut off due to a single non critical fault.  I'd love to have  an auto engineer with experience in this area chime in with the logic behind setting it up this way.

 

I just had a thought. I wonder if the manufacturer would have to recertify the car for each mode of operation. (i.e. the seatbelt pretensioner fails, but the front airbag still deploys.) There would be multiple possibilities of combinations of working & non working SRS components, they might have to crash test the car for each and every scenario. If any fault shuts the whole system down, they'd only have to meet whatever crash standards apply-if any-to a car with inoperative SRS. Well, it's a theory.



#12 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 6,363 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:26 PM

Well.....guess I'm going to find out. Just got my hands on this. '04 VDC, 133k miles, beige leather (oh well....). Salvage title means I'll probably just fix it and keep it, so the 4-cyl one will have the highest resale value....

 

 

btw...this one has a VDC Off button.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dave. Any luck with that VTD diff swap? Does it work without the VDC?



#13 CNY_Dave

CNY_Dave

    03 LL Bean H6

  • Members
  • 1,731 posts
  • Near Cortland NY

Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:05 AM

I have not done the VTD swap, got laid off late January, started working a temp contracting engineering job in April, start my permanent job this coming Monday, and I sent my rear VTD housing to someone that had cracked theirs.

 

It is guaranteed to work, the gears don't need ay input from the TCU, known issue is that the trans will throw a code because of a difference in the signal from the rear speed sensor. 

 

The VTD uses a small metal 'gear' to send the signal, the MPT uses the outside of the clutch basket, which has more 'teeth'.

 

If the MPT front sensor has the same number of teeth on its 'sensor gear' as the rear on the MPT, I've wondered if you could just wire the front sensor to the front ands rear inputs.

 

A daring soul could try getting a new rear sensor gear machined, or even boring a hole in the case and moving the rear VSS so it can getr a signal from the same-dimaeter fewer-plates sits-further-back VTD clutch basket.

 

Some have said it may be possible to squelch the code with one of the ecu/tcu reader/programmer tools, like FreeSSM.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users