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Got A/C working...


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45 replies to this topic

#1 MR_Loyale

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:06 PM

I finally got my 93 Loyale A/C converted to R134a and got it working. :banana:

 

The last time it worked was the summer of 2006. Back then the refrigerant had leaked out and the fellow at the shop had convinced me to refill with R12 which was expensive even back then. I recall it was over $600 to refill and repair it back then when I was in Spokane visiting relatives. It all leaked out about one month later and since I was on the other side of the state in Western Washington (Spokane is Eastern Washington for all you non-Washingtonians), I didn't go after them for a faulty repair

 

Then yesterday in Walmart I saw a conversion kit for $44 and picked it up.  No worries about properly  disposing of old nasty r12 as that bridge was crossed 7 years ago :P (don't blame me folks, I didn't put in an undersized O-ring that leaked, call tuneTech in Spokane to complain). 

 

The big concern was moisture that accumulated in the system. I got a vacuum pump and manifold gauge set at Harbor Freight, evacuated the system and after some fiddling with the pulser system and the A/C relay it now blows icy cold. Makes me wonder why I didn't do this years ago.  I guess I had thought you needed special training or something lol.


Edited by MR_Loyale, 23 June 2013 - 10:15 PM.


#2 Dee2

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:20 PM

did you have to replace any o-rings ?



#3 MR_Loyale

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:01 AM

did you have to replace any o-rings ?

 

Yes. I had to replace the one on the upper large pipe coming from the firewall to the compressor.  Turns out that was the one that the shop I paid $600+ to in 2006 got wrong. It was undersized and leaked a week later. But this one is holding so far.  Time will tell.

 

 

Trying to find the A/C O Ring set locally was like trying to find beluga caviar at Safeway. Autozone, O'Reilly both had it (assorted bag of em) for ordering online (O'reilly wanted twice the price <_<) I had to drive 100 miles round trip from Bremerton to Federal Way to get it today. I got them coming out of my ears now $8 for an assortment.

 

Not a difficult job. If you are intending to do it, check out this excellent vid:

 

 


Edited by MR_Loyale, 24 June 2013 - 05:40 PM.


#4 SmashedGlass

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:57 AM

Just curious, what were the not-working conditions of the system prior to you fixing the O-ring and refilling?

I believe my a/c would work, if it were refilled, but haven't done so just yet. I can get my compressor to run by doing the pulser delete mod

from on here but it doesn't blow cold at all and I have bubbles in my drier sight glass. So I'm assuming it's just too low on charge and triggering

the trinary switch to send an "off" signal.



#5 MR_Loyale

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:29 PM

Just curious, what were the not-working conditions of the system prior to you fixing the O-ring and refilling?

I believe my a/c would work, if it were refilled, but haven't done so just yet. I can get my compressor to run by doing the pulser delete mod

from on here but it doesn't blow cold at all and I have bubbles in my drier sight glass. So I'm assuming it's just too low on charge and triggering

the trinary switch to send an "off" signal.

 

Well mine hadn't had refrigerant in it since it leaked out in 2006. I recalled at the time I could see the dye coming out from the top pipe that goes through the firewall into the evaporator. My compressor clutch didn't engage so I knew I had work to do.

 

I first started by evacuating the system for an hour using a vacuum pump to remove the moisture. You need a vacuum to cause the boilng point of the water to go down and it will boil away. I knew I didn't have any refrigerant so I wouldn't be dumping into the environment.

 

Then I added some refrigerant but the clutch would not engage. I then started testing things beginning with seeing if the compressor clutch would engage by opening the connector to the clutch and jumpering it to 12v. It engaged. Next I checked the Ac fuse on the passengers side of the engine bay. Then my Haynes book mentioned the pulser system. You can check it by jumpering the red/black wire of the AC relay to ground.  The clutch engaged and I held it there while my AC was on max. It did start getting cold so that was when I knew there was life left in the system.

 

When I removed the jumper on the AC relay, the clutch stopped engaging. I looked at the pulser and it was way away from the sensor prongs. It is supposed to be at 3mm between the prongs and the sensor. I adjusted the sensor and tried it again and it worked.

 

Then when I shut off the engine I could hear hissing and saw the oil leaking out of the upper firewall evaporator coupling. That was when I knew I needed an O-Ring. Next day I pulled it apart and saw the undersized O-Ring the previous shop used. I replaced it, evacuated and charged the system and it has worked ever since.

 

The kit I used had oil and sealer in the cans of refrigerant. If your clutch is engaging and you see bubbles, I would suspect a low charge. But make sure you have something with a gauge on it to help you be sure to not overcharge the system. R134a only requires 85% of the charge of the old R12.


Edited by MR_Loyale, 24 June 2013 - 02:34 PM.


#6 MR_Loyale

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

What is the pulser delete mod?



#7 MR_Loyale

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:46 PM

Here an excellent article on the pulser system and why it is needed:

 

http://www.google.co....48293060,d.cGE


Edited by MR_Loyale, 24 June 2013 - 05:44 PM.


#8 capn_r

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:55 PM

Just curious, what were the not-working conditions of the system prior to you fixing the O-ring and refilling?

I believe my a/c would work, if it were refilled, but haven't done so just yet. I can get my compressor to run by doing the pulser delete mod

from on here but it doesn't blow cold at all and I have bubbles in my drier sight glass. So I'm assuming it's just too low on charge and triggering

the trinary switch to send an "off" signal.

If you are getting vapor bubbles in your sight glass with your compressor running I'd check and see if the suction line is cold or sweating and if it is you may have a blend door partially open mixing air from the heater core.


Edited by capn_r, 24 June 2013 - 02:56 PM.


#9 SmashedGlass

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:27 PM

Thanks for the tips. I'm probably going to have the system evacuated, as my receiver/drier looks like it could use a replacing and as I understand you should replace it when converting from R12 to R134 anyhow. That, and I'll be replacing all the O-rings and changing the adapters too.



#10 MR_Loyale

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:47 PM

If your system still has R12 in it, any shop should evacuate it for free as the R12 is like money in their pockets. Once you have put everthing back together you will also need to put a vacuum on the system to remove any moisture. Also, if you have gauges, you can tell if the system wll hold a vacuum for any length of time before you put in refrigerant.


Edited by MR_Loyale, 24 June 2013 - 05:50 PM.


#11 capn_r

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:28 PM

Good plan, the drier should be replaced just as a good service procedure and depending on the time frame the original was made it may not have a compatible desiccant in it. Anything made in the last 20 or so years should be fine but prior to that could be questionable. 



#12 MR_Loyale

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:30 PM

Good plan, the drier should be replaced just as a good service procedure and depending on the time frame the original was made it may not have a compatible desiccant in it. Anything made in the last 20 or so years should be fine but prior to that could be questionable. 

 

Really? The drier needs to be replaced? Mine is the original on the car from 1993. Do you think I ought to change it? 



#13 capn_r

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:46 AM

That was around the time that they came with the 134a refrigerant and POE or PAG oil compatible desiccant which should be fine. (same era the manufacturers were transitioning to 134a) You probably won't have any issues.  Research XH5, XH7, and XH9 desiccant's for information.



#14 l75eya

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:43 PM

How exactly did you test your compressor clutch directly? I've been trying by wiring 12v+ directly from the battery to the stripped blue wire on the left.

Nothing happened. Front of the compressor still spun freely (the part with those tabs sticking out)
Then I tried supplying 12V to that wire and grounding out the ground wire. Still nothing.
This is the second compressor I'm trying this on, and this one was known to work as of 2 years ago. Anything I might be missing?
IMG_20130615_113643_zps8a39a4a4.jpg



#15 l75eya

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:40 PM

From jumping 12 volts to the clutch and using a fresh ground and having the clutch STILL not engage, I'm leaning toward the only possibility being that the solenoid inside the compressor that engages the clutch is itself bad.

Anybody ever dis-assembled one of these compressors before?



#16 capn_r

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:21 PM

Check the compressor clutch for continuity. 



#17 SmashedGlass

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:23 PM

Although it seems too coincidental, I'd also lean towards that second compressor being bad. You're hotwiring it correctly yet it doesn't engage, so.......poof.

You mentioned in your other thread that it worked two years ago but since then all the a/c lines had been torn out of that car? Maybe moisture got in there and fubar'd the works.



#18 MR_Loyale

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:35 PM

How exactly did you test your compressor clutch directly? I've been trying by wiring 12v+ directly from the battery to the stripped blue wire on the left.

Nothing happened. Front of the compressor still spun freely (the part with those tabs sticking out)
Then I tried supplying 12V to that wire and grounding out the ground wire. Still nothing.
This is the second compressor I'm trying this on, and this one was known to work as of 2 years ago. Anything I might be missing?
IMG_20130615_113643_zps8a39a4a4.jpg

 

Yes, that is exactly what I did. I touched it to the positive on the battery with a jumpr. The clutch clicked. I did it also while the engine was on and it engaged.  If this doesn't happen for you then it isn't working.  Once you get that test working, if your still cannot get it to engage when you hit the MAX A/C then look to the AC Relay on the passenger side. Grounding the red/black wire (you don't need to cut it, but rather create a jumper wire with each end stripped, shove one end up into the red/black wire of the AC relay connector and then touch to ground.).  If the compressor engages, then the pulser system needs adjusting. Loosten the large bolt on the pulser bracket and then the smaller one. Pivot the pulser bracket to the left as the smaller hole is oblong. Adjust until the sensor is 3mm from the detector arms and then tighten the bolts.


Edited by MR_Loyale, 25 June 2013 - 11:52 PM.


#19 l75eya

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:37 PM

Ugh, had posted here last night but my phone must not have gotten the message through:

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, I got my compressor to engage! Funny story,

The blue wire pictured is somehow a remnant from my OLD compressor. The original one. I swapped in the compressor out of our 93 Loyale about 2 weeks ago and apparently IT'S 12v wire was laying hidden under my air filter box. That's what I get for swapping the parts out in a parking garage at night with no flash-light. :lol:

So the good news is that the compressor works and it will blow cold air when I charge it. The bad news is the system doesn't hold a charge. I found one leak right at the coupling on the driver's side on the front of the condenser. That most likely just needs tightened. I don't, however, know anything about replacing the o-rings and that brings up the question:

Where can I get the right O-rings now that the coolant is 134a? And how many of them do I need to replace?

Forgive me if this has been answered already, I just wanted to throw that out there, I'll read through this thread again and see if there's any hint to that.



#20 SmashedGlass

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:50 PM

Auto parts stores sell a generic "conversion" kit of just the green O-rings. Such as: http://www.autozone....947242_0_18102_

 

 


Edited by SmashedGlass, 26 June 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#21 MR_Loyale

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:56 AM

Auto parts stores sell a generic "conversion" kit of just the green O-rings. Such as: http://www.autozone....947242_0_18102_

 

LOL. Yep that is the exact one I used. As I said it was hell finding a place locally that had it is stock. But damn I wanted my AC. I got the entire bag of em minus one large fat one.


Edited by MR_Loyale, 27 June 2013 - 01:02 AM.


#22 MR_Loyale

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:00 AM

Ugh, had posted here last night but my phone must not have gotten the message through:

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, I got my compressor to engage! Funny story,

The blue wire pictured is somehow a remnant from my OLD compressor. The original one. I swapped in the compressor out of our 93 Loyale about 2 weeks ago and apparently IT'S 12v wire was laying hidden under my air filter box. That's what I get for swapping the parts out in a parking garage at night with no flash-light. :lol:

So the good news is that the compressor works and it will blow cold air when I charge it. The bad news is the system doesn't hold a charge. I found one leak right at the coupling on the driver's side on the front of the condenser. That most likely just needs tightened. I don't, however, know anything about replacing the o-rings and that brings up the question:

Where can I get the right O-rings now that the coolant is 134a? And how many of them do I need to replace?

Forgive me if this has been answered already, I just wanted to throw that out there, I'll read through this thread again and see if there's any hint to that.

 

Do you have dye in your system? That is the easiest way to find leaks. Also if you use refrigerant with leak stopper and the oil then you will have less leaks. But the leak sealers don't make up for undersized gaskets that you may have paid a shop $600+ to install in 2006. :angry:  Yeah I am a teensy bit bitter about that. But hey if I can fix my AC it shows any goober can, right? LOL.

 

Do not overcharge your system whatever you do. Good luck,



#23 MR_Loyale

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:04 AM

I was watching my compresser run after I got home from work with the AC on all the way. The pulser system must be working because it cycled the clutch on and off a few times as I watched. 



#24 SmashedGlass

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:30 AM

The compressor should, normally, occasionally stop and then come back on. 

The pulser system is for if the there is a mismatch in the speed of the belt, like when the compressor is starting to lock up;

basically it cuts a/c operation to save the belt from burning


Edited by SmashedGlass, 27 June 2013 - 06:32 AM.


#25 MR_Loyale

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

So how is it determined when to cut off the compressor? Is there a temperature sensor the ECU reads or something?






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