Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Thrown Rod?


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:27 AM

I think my motor threw a rod or something catastrophic. I was driving and everything seemed pretty normal, the ride was the best yet -my Matilda and I were really bonding. Then when I slowed and turned the engine started running really rough all of a sudden like bad gas or a clogged fuel filter. All the gauges were okay -temp in the middle, oil at ~30psi. I thought I'd shut it down and see if giving it a few minutes might help -if there was debris trying to clog the fuel filter, maybe it would clear. Checked the oil, and it looked good. When I restarted it white smoke barreled out the tailpipe and the motor was rocking like it was only firing on the d-side or like a motor mount was free, with a hammering sound coming from the dead side regular with the engine speed. That was Friday, the last time my motor ran. Finally got her home on a dolly last night.

 

The oil looks great, no trace of water, no apparent oil in the rad, nothing leaking anywhere outside. I tried to remove the timing belt cover on the p-side to see if it was still there but 2 of 3 screws wouldn't back out. I removed one and pryed the cover back and could see belt on top, but can't tell how tight it is.

 

I am totally heartbroken at this point, having done all this work lately, and it was running/driving awesome. Now I might be looking for a replacement motor. 

 

Please if anyone can help figure this out, The PO said the motor was rebuilt ~50K ago, and it has obviously been resealed. The timing belts had ~25,000 miles on them according to him.

 

It's an '85 EA82, Hitachi carb 5sp D/R with 225K on the clock. The plan was to drive this thing to my grave... :(  



#2 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,441 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:46 AM

Makes me wonder if the filure is due to it having been rebuilt? The bottom ends should never have to come apart for any reason beyond normal maintenance. 

 

Scott (xbeerd on the forum) has an ea82 spfi engine kicking around. Your hitachi manifold will bolt on the same, but you increase compression from 8.5 to 9.5 for a little more kick. I'll give him a hollar. Maybe he'll chime in. Between the both of us, him having the engine, i have a harness and distributor that could be cut down so that you can run spfi as a standalone ECU and harness.



#3 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:01 AM

I don't really know the extent or the reason of the rebuild, but I guess it is what it is now.

 

I will do whatever to get this thing going again.

May have to take a low offer on the convertible to fund it and get the garage empty...it's tempting, but I can't see stealing it's engine unless someone really wanted the rest of it to build something cool.

 

Miles -I'm very interested in whatever options I have, even spfi (I'm kind of a carb nut) I was even thinking it might be time to think about the j22 swap if I could find one cheap.



#4 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,441 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:43 AM

Well, there is an ea82 available here in milwaukee if we can figure out how to get it to you. 



#5 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:55 PM

Tell me more -what kind of shape is it in? I have a truck and some free time, also friends who go there regularly.



#6 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 13 October 2013 - 02:51 PM

There is a rubber plug on the t-covers that allow access to the tensioner bolts.  You should be able to check tightness of the belt by removing this cover.  I have had tensioner bolts back out and completely lose tension.

 

As far as throwing a rod, the sound and the hole in the top of the block would make that easy to diagnose.  The whole would likely break through the top-of-block coolant transfer channel, causing a massive coolant leak.  It is also likely to break loose the mounting of the power steering pump.


Edited by NorthWet, 13 October 2013 - 02:52 PM.


#7 TomRhere

TomRhere

    Certified BRAT nut!!!

  • Members
  • 3,969 posts
  • Hillsdale, Mi. USA

Posted 13 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

Yeah, a thrown rod, regardless of engine design, makes one heck of a mess of things.......

#8 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 13 October 2013 - 03:47 PM

I can feel good belt thru the top hole, there's no leaking anywhere, can't see anything wrong with the block. No water in the oil or otherwise. Don't have a power steering pump either. Can't really think of why all the white smoke unless a passage broke, and the hammering,...a broken valve? I'm scared to start it again.



#9 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

This is a typical picture of a thrown rod in an EA82:

gallery_6017_223_1360569707_2694.jpg

So, does the top of your engine (underneath the intake manifold) look something like this?



#10 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:34 PM

No, it appears to be all intact.



#11 86 Wonder Wedge

86 Wonder Wedge

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • 350 posts
  • Akron, OH

Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:20 PM

You could've also had a massive headgasket and/or intake gasket let go, dumping unholy amounts of coolant into one side and not letting the engine run..

 

I'd pull a plug or two, look at them. Then I'd pull ALL the plugs, rotate it slowly, listening and feeling for any roughness or uneveness.. then grab a compression tester and check the readings for all the cylinders and look for any massive differences or odd readings, then report back.



#12 xbeerd

xbeerd

    dookin'

  • Members
  • 1,022 posts
  • Milwaukee, WI

Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:58 PM

Hey. I do have a near complete (just missing a vacuum hose I believe) ea82.

I would love it to move out of my dads garage

It ran fine when pulled for an ejswap

#13 xbeerd

xbeerd

    dookin'

  • Members
  • 1,022 posts
  • Milwaukee, WI

Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:59 PM

Where are you located?

#14 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:15 PM

Okay tomorrow I'll check out the plugs and see if I can get the timing covers off, maybe run a comp check. My back is killin me today, so I didn't get much done. I'd hate to write off this motor if it's not lost. 

 

Xbeerd I'm in Bloomington, IN. 



#15 scoobiedubie

scoobiedubie

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 462 posts
  • Aloha, Oregon

Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:54 AM

The distributor probably needs rebuilding, as the vacuum advance relies on some ball bearings rolling between two plates. The bearings wear a groove in the plates that then bind up. The counter weights can get worn as well. 85 and 86 distributor are problematic. White smoke is coolant. Coolant gets into the exhaust from a worn intake manifold gasket, loose cylinder head bolts allowing coolant past the cylinder head gasket, and a crack at the fin between the exhaust ports in your cylnder head. You said that the oil looks fine but you did not say how you determined that. Did you simply pull the dipstick or more importantly, drain the oil and look for metal chunks?

#16 xbeerd

xbeerd

    dookin'

  • Members
  • 1,022 posts
  • Milwaukee, WI

Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:58 AM

ok, after you dig into it and see whats needing to be done let me know if you might be interested in my motor.  im gonna need to get it moved before snow starts falling.



#17 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:47 AM

Pulled the plugs -1&3 look good 2 and 4 had antifreeze on them and 4 with nasty threads.Just put these in a month ago. A compression check seems like a messy job now.  Haven't drained the oil thinking I might have to make one last go to get it in the garage.



#18 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,441 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:51 AM

Drain the oil and see if coolant comes out, it will settle on the pan and not necessarily mix into the oil until enough is there to suck up in the oil pump. coolant eats bearings.



#19 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

Drained the oil -not enough coolant in there to notice.  :confused:



#20 scoobiedubie

scoobiedubie

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 462 posts
  • Aloha, Oregon

Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:57 PM

You could pull the driver side camtower cover and check the cylinder head bolts for tightness.  The compression test on that side will determine whether you should focus on the intake manifold gasket or the cylinder head gasket.  Low compression and loose cylinder head bolts, may only required retorquing those bolts.  Or it could require a new cylinder head gasket.  Low compression and tight cylinder head bolts would point toward the cylinder head gasket.  High compression and tight cylinder head bolts would point toward the intake gasket. 



#21 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:14 PM

Do the intake gaskets fail in the middle allowing coolant into the intake?



#22 jono

jono

    New User

  • Members
  • 496 posts
  • Southern Hemisphere - AUS

Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

yes, the intake has a coolant passage on the inner most side of each head. I have seen a few aftermarket ones go yuck and leak, sean the off genuine one of 20 years old also leak into a port. You can also get a freeze plug in the head seep into the sump oil and maybe burn off as white smoke (aka steam) . Pull the oil fill cap off first thing after an overnight cool down and look at the underside to see if moisture in form of condensation droplets on the caps underside. You may be a contender for a cooling system additive quick fix.

The gaskets may not fail as such, just get loose, go hard with age, or alloy corrodes and lets it past



#23 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:55 PM

Turned the motor over by hand and seemed okay just a little snug in one quarter revolution, I think normal. No weird sounds, so I did dry compression checks w/out throttle, ~150 on all cyls, -that seems good. Motor sounded fine when the starter spun it. I expected a collision.

 

The intake gasket I can see looks terrible. The intake gaskets on the EA81 were metal -should I look for something like that to replace them?



#24 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:20 PM

Many well-respected members recommend Subaru Dealer-only on the intake gaskets.  There are plenty of thin, low-quality intake gaskets on the market.  I've used Felpro without any problems...yet.

 

Coolant does NOT produce white smoke, it produces water vapor.  Condensed vapor and smoke act differently in the air, with the vapor dissipating "into thin air", while smoke only gets diluted and thins out.  It is a useful diagnostic to notice the difference.  BTW, white smoke is typically caused by burned ATF.



#25 rrgrr

rrgrr

    New User

  • Members
  • 300 posts
  • Bloomington

Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:52 AM

Okay it is possible in my haste to get the thing shut down, that I overreacted a bit. Certainly did not go around back and sniff while I was focused on the motor rocking and running like hell.

I think if intake gasket failure is the best case scenario, I'll take it. I've just never seen an engine act so violently, so I figured the worst.

 

Picked a couple hunks of rotten gasket/goo from the edges of the mani. Does not boost confidence in the reseal job by whoever did that. I think I'm going to put some fel-pros in there and see what happens. The motor seems to turn fine with the starter. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users