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Help Needed. Gas + Spark does not equal start?!?!


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15 replies to this topic

#1 tundrabrat

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:19 PM

Can't get my freshly built motor to start.

 

1.  New Rotor, cap and wires.

2.  Set the motor and distributor to TDC

3.  New Weber

4.  Using the distributor and coil from previous motor (that was running when I pulled the motor)

 

Engine cranks, I have confirmed that there is spark and fuel.  Car won't start even with starter fluid.

 

Any ideas of what I'm missing... weak coil, did I miss a wire/ground, etc.???

 

Thanks for your help.


Edited by tundrabrat, 22 December 2013 - 10:20 PM.


#2 MilesFox

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:30 PM

distributor 180 off, perhaps? or off a tooth. try turning it one way or the other. you may have to re-clock it.

 

is your firing order correct?



#3 tundrabrat

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:00 PM

1,3,2,4.  Tried moving it by a tooth and clocking it... nothing.

 

I figured that if timing was off it would still try to fire but nothing.

 

I was wondering if the spark is weak if my coil could be bad.



#4 turbosubarubrat

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:34 AM

Could be a weak coil i had one on one of my wagons that wouldn't start because it wasn't hot enough then i put on another one and it fired right up. You check compression? One of mine wouldn't start since the hydraulic lifters stiffened up but the adjustment were not screwed tight enough to get compression high enough to start. It only had like 60 psi in each cylinder when it needs to be 120-160 to run if you get 2 of your cylinder in that compression range it will fire and run just rough.



#5 86 Wonder Wedge

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:41 AM

Check the compression. Thought i had a dead EA82 after a fresh rebuild, but the HLAs hadn't pumped up yet to open the valves.

 

Upon the rebuild, were the heads cleaned/rebuilt? Did the HLAs and/or valves move freely?



#6 MilesFox

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:45 AM

here's a long shot:: Depending on the cross reference for your distributor cap, the numbers on the cap may be out of orientation as some nissan stanza can cross-reference. rotation is counter clockwise



#7 tundrabrat

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:47 AM

I've got an old cap, I'll check this first, then I'll do a valve adjustments again tomorrow and then compression check... If none of those look like the issue I'll try the coil.

Thanks for the input.

#8 naru

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:20 AM

#1 needs to be at TDC of the COMPRESSSION stroke w/installing disty.

Easy to confuse compression stroke TDC w/exhaust stroke TDC.

I like to leave the valve cover off and watch the intake valve close while rotating the engine to confirm I`m on the compression stroke.



#9 jono

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

assuming it is EA81 for starters , #1, #3 are LHD passenger side head, #2 & #4 are LHD drivers side.

 

Looking at dizzy from the bumper bar, dizzy on your left, #1 lead comes from cap about top left quadrant of cap, #3 bottom left continues anti clock #2 , #4...

 

Have you done the finger in spark hole to feel the compression on #1 come to a stop, see timing mark on flywheel about TDC 8 DBTDC and rotor is pointing towards top left quadrant and #1s lead post position?

 

As far as weak spark - found a really poor spark once - feint yellow and google searches confirmed this would be the problem - when we found the real problem, still had weak yellow spark on cranking and she ran like a dream !


Edited by jono, 23 December 2013 - 04:03 PM.


#10 suprjohn

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:20 PM

if it's got fuel and spark, the only thing left is compression.

 

i'm betting the valves are a little tight, not sealing, and therefore no compression.

 

john



#11 tundrabrat

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:23 AM

Compression is all between 135-150 per cylinder. 

 

Would this thing have compression if the timing gears (crank and cam gears) were not aligned properly.  I don't believe this is the issue but I'm running through everything I can think of to check.

 

Very frustrating...


Edited by tundrabrat, 24 December 2013 - 04:17 PM.


#12 djellum

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 04:28 AM

does it actually get fuel to the combustion chamber?  are the plugs wet with gas after cranking, or is it just getting fuel to the carb?

 

maybe a very bad vacuum leak?  double check all your bolts and hoses.



#13 TomRhere

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 08:13 AM

With the numbers you posted, valve timing can't be off by much. Compression would be real low if cam was off enough to be cause of "no start".

 

The engine in my Wagon did the same after I resealed it, crank but no start. Checked and rechecked everything, swapped disty, nada. Starting fluid didn't do anything either.

I know it's not good on the starter, but I just held key in the crank position. It finally started to hit on a cylinder or two, then fired up. Been starting fine ever since.

No idea as to what/why it did that.



#14 ford'ssubaru's

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 11:46 AM

There is alot of input here.  If it is still not starting go back to absolutes.  Recheck Timing belt installation.  This can be confusing if you have not done a few of them.  Like suggested above leave the timing covers off.  Leave the plugs out.  Remember the timing marks are the three lines and line the mark to the center one.  Also mentioned above if you observe the intake valve close and exhaust valve open then that should be TDC compression only if you stick the screw driver in the cylinder and the piston is at the top of the stroke.  This is an absolute.  This will tell you if the belt is installed correctly on that side.  Similarly you can do the same to the other side checking the other belt.  I had this on my first rebuild and reset every thing step by step and realized I had 1 belt off.  This difference between a fuel injected EA82 and a carb unit I found that a Fuel Injected unit will actuallly try to start and may even run.  A carb unit won't.  Merry Christmas...



#15 greg454

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:24 PM

try to spray some starting fluid down the carb just to be completely sure its not a fuel issue. 



#16 tundrabrat

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:15 PM

Going back to basics... Clean/regap plugs, pull carb, look for any issues and reinstall, check for vacuum leaks (I pulled all emissions), recheck all timing and wires.

If this doesn't work, I'll pull the engine and take a look at the timing gears.




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