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Lift block height


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#51 Uberoo

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 03:52 AM

So I finally got my plastic "prototype" adapter plate back from the machine shop and was able to do a little bit of work on it today.

While,making an ea-ej adapter is common stuff,I am the first that I know of to experiment making it in HDPE rather than out of the more common steel or aluminum.

Anyway here is the plate after it got back from the machine shop.mostly anyway.I cut some of the excess material off,oveled out the top holes,and inserted a steel bushing before remembering to get the camera.

From there I inserted the steel bushings into all of the various oversize holes.

Inserting the bushings was actually a fairly time consuming process for a couple reasons. 1: the steel bushings I got where the closest inch bushings that I could find.The 8mm dowel pins fit just inside 7/16" OD bushings,and the 10mm dowel pins and bolts fit just inside 1/2" OD bushings,BUT I could only find the 1/2" bushings locally 3/4" in length.So the extra 1/4" had to be ground down.So I bored out one of the holes in my old steel adapter plate to use as a jig.It was pretty cool how much heat the much larger mass of the adapter plate soaked up from the steel bushings.I could grind the bushings down to where they were flush with the adapter plate,getting them red hot in places during the process,push them out and hold them in my hand just seconds afterwards.Although the steel adapter plate got hot enough after the last bushing that it was too hot to hold..

The 2nd issue was just how SOFT the HDPE is.I beveled the leading edge of the bushing so it would go in easier,but I had to be very gentle in pushing the bushings in because just like in drilling it, the HDPE offered no resistance to sideways motion of the bushings.All of the bushing were put in by hand using my fingers because any more pressure would cause them to go sideways.Its really surreal to push steel bushings in and have the plastic deform out of the way just using the pressure between thumbs/fingers.Maybe HDPE isnt such a good idea..

the 3rd issue comes from the fact that I am using standard bushings on metric dowels/studs.They are close but all of the bushings needed some gentle dremeling for easier installation.One of the studs on the engine had a deep burr on it,and where the steel deformed upwards was enough to jam up and stop the adapter plate from sliding on so it had to be dremmeled smooth again.

 

Finally here is the pudding,the black HDPE adapter plate on the engine,with all holes lining up. :)

 

then I started to make the siamesed studs but didn't get very far.I figured out the length to make each sides of the studs but I didnt have any nuts to hold the bolts in the vise without damaging the threads so I went to the store and it closed just a few minutes before I got there,so I figured that was a decent stopping point.next up will be the siamezed studs and cutting out the rest of the adapter plate.

 

*NOTE: the extra hole seen at the top of the plate in the various pics is one of 3 extra holes the machine shop used to figure out the best way to drill the correct holes...

 

I'm really hoping this plate holes up because it is incredibly lightweight and easy to work with.It cuts like frozen butter and requires nothing but woodworking tools to cut/drill/mill etc.I would say its easier to work with than wood because it is dimensionally stable,and it doesn't chip at the edges of a cut like wood does. However,despite my optimism for it,it might just end up failing like a few of my other ideas,but only time will tell.



#52 Uberoo

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 04:00 AM

In the morning I'm going up to spokane to get the legacy brake booster and master cylinder so I can get the EA81 steering column and pedal assembly mounted in the car.No more floor mounted pedals and maybe,just maybe with the legacy MC and booster and 4wheel disk brakes,this brat will be the first offroader of mine that actually stops.Not being able to lock the brakes up on gravel kinda blows...



#53 Uberoo

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 06:16 PM

found the SD card reader,it fell behind my desk behind the trash can...

 

So anyway I went up to pull and save and found the brake booster and brake master cylinder from a 95 impreza without ABS.Bonus points because Subarus are really just giant LEGO sets the bolt pattern for the brake booster is the exact same as the EA81 pedal assembly I'm using.So after a bit of mockup and drilling it FITS!

 

It wouldn't have fit unless I lowered the strut towers,as you can see its pretty tight.It need some trimming to fit the 78 brat firewall.

I will weld that up latter.

 

But,what is all that OTHER crap in the engine bay you might ask?Why it is an ej22 and a 5 speed DR!

 

Scotty ,however, had to call in from the engine room with some clearance issues.

 

If you look closely you can see that the engine is resting on the rear most valve cover bolts on top of the frame rails.If you look even closer you can see the engine mount holes in the cross member.Meaning that the frame rails need alot of clearancing so the engine can find its happy home ~4" rearward and 4" down.NOT GOOD!So I marked where the frame rails need to be cut and pulled the engine/transmission combo with at of fun*.

 

* fun meaning lots of broken plastic and bent metal.


Edited by Uberoo, 18 February 2015 - 09:07 PM.


#54 Uberoo

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:10 PM

Stay tuned for the thrilling conclusion to Big Engine in Small Cars!



#55 Uberoo

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 01:36 AM

So, um, about that update,um, work got in the way, along with a serving of life. Ive been remarkably busy so I haven't had a chance to get much done. Ive been fabricating a bumper,but its not for my car,Ive been working almost every day for the past couple weeks fabricating stuff.At the end of the day I'm so tired I take a shower and crash in my bed.

 

No one that looks at this cares about any of that,So time for the subaru update.update. Ive finally managed to clearance enough of the frame rails and my lift/adapter blocks to get the engine to sit down into its mounts.The blocks still need some clearancing to clear the moving engine but its in there.For Now..With the engine down in the engine bay as far as it is, I'm undecided if I want to just transfer case it and get it over with.I have everything I would need except a 4.111 rear diff.I have a sammy and a nissan case out back by the fence...

 

anyway, here is the engine WAY DOWN in the engine bay.

 

Just how far is WAY DOWN in the engine bay?The cam pulleys are the same height as the radiator crossmember.

(the engine is tilted because its not quite centered,the driver side lift block needs some more clearancing.

 

Here is a shot of the valve covers peaking through what was once 1/4" steel...not the obscenely low oil pan.

 

 

Maybe I should just T case it,It has a 6" crossmember lift, and a 7" strut lift.If I did some work on the oil pan it could certainly clear the diff.Or I could set the engine up slightly higher than stock and still fit under the hood...Decisions,decisions...31" super swampers arn't that much more expensive than 29" super swampers...

 



#56 Uberoo

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 02:18 AM

Thoughts like that keep me up at night.So at midnight,in my fluffy bunny slippers(JK) I lifted the engine up 6" and put a rear diff in its proper place.According to my sleep deprived maths "IT COULD WORK!!!"The transmission tunnel would require an extra special touch with my 10lb hammer, or I could section it upwards...

 

I need to find an assistant to help me stuff the engine/transmission and front diff in where it goes to physically check clearances,but maybe I could have long travel suspension,and gearing, in a very light subaru...

 

but more than that I need to go to bed.



#57 NorthCoast

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 08:39 AM

Glad to see you are working again and moving forward with the build.  You should T-case it.  Bring that motor up.



#58 pontoontodd

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 01:00 PM

Glad to see you are working again and moving forward with the build.  You should T-case it.  Bring that motor up.

 

When you guys talk about "t casing it", how exactly would you do that?

Keep the stock front drive and just use the t case to drop the rear drive?

Use front and rear outputs of the t case and use some other IFS or front axle?  If you're doing that, why not use a RWD trans?

Just curious, I've heard a bunch of people on this forum now hint at doing this but I've never seen how they've done it.



#59 Uberoo

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 02:45 PM

"T caseing" refers to driving a divorced transfer case  with the rear output of the transmission.Then a rear diff is added under the transmission to drive the front wheels.Driving it is exactly like drive a normal truck- rwd,4hi,and 4low.If you T case the vehicle after the factory dual range box you have even more gearing options-like super duper lo-lo.Also because the final drive ratio isn't determined by the transmission anymore you can now change the gear ratios for bigger tires...

 

The hatch in my sig ran an ej22 with a 5 speed dual range transmission into a nissan 720 transfer case.The front and rear diffs were 4.111 diffs and it had no problems spinning the 31x10.50's. With the DR transmission I had hi and lo gears so I could have:  rwd,4hi,4low,low rwd,lo 4hi,and 4 low low. In high range it was a little under powered on take off but it still could motivate the tires pretty good,but low-low was slower than walking at idle.


Edited by Uberoo, 09 April 2015 - 02:54 PM.


#60 pontoontodd

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:38 PM

Alright, that makes sense.



#61 Uberoo

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 10:04 PM

So I had an assistant help me today,and the front diff/engine/and transmission can fit in a 78 brat with 6" of lift.JUST.I need to beat back the transmission tunnel to make the DR5 speed fit.Just so that the transmission and the front diff don't rub I will grind the top of the diff,and shave off alittle bit of the transmission drain plug-no reason for the drain head to be 1/2" thick when 1/4" will be fine.With the front diff mocked up ,I also was able to mark exactly where the control arm pivots need to be moved inward to minimize axle plunge and maximize travel-A whopping 4.5" per side instead of my original guess of 2" per side.It will end up with ea81 control arms that are longer than ea82. Long travel without added width..

 

 

does anyone happen to know the angle of the EA motor mounts and the EJ mounts?


Edited by Uberoo, 09 April 2015 - 10:25 PM.


#62 Gloyale

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:11 AM

Changing control arm pivots without changing the inner tie rod pivots will mean you toe will constantly change with suspension travel. Could be nearly undrivable.

I think you are overthinking(or under thinking?) that part. Get it driving first. Do you want to fabricate all summer or do you want to wheel?

#63 Uberoo

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 12:28 PM

I want to wheel,but I also know that once its together in any form, is rare that I will change anything.I'll get to the tie rod pivots when I get there.



#64 Uberoo

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 12:40 PM

After some google-fu I discovered that smart car steering racks are only about 15.75 from pivot to pivot which is about perfect.Now to find one..



#65 Uberoo

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:40 PM

WEIGHT REDUCTION!!!!!

 

As I said earlier this thread is all about weight reduction,and here is the first mod.

 

I cut off the front end of the brat after the strut tower and the engine cross member for a weight reduction of 34 lbs.However, I am tubing the front end and incorporating the front bumper as a structural member.So after I build the necessary reinforcements and mounting  points it will probably weigh the same or slightly more than before,but way less adding the front bumper as a structural member without cutting the sheet metal away.Here is a pic with the fenders hanging on the car.Now I just need to find a more structurally sound left front fender.

 

 

The bumper and the mounting bar will be removable so engine work will be a breeze...



#66 Uberoo

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 04:49 PM

I hung the rest of the sheetmetal to get an idea of where I should put the bumper.



#67 Uberoo

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:31 PM

So I managed to start on the front bumper.Its 2x2x.120.It should be very strong especially after I tie it into the 4 chassis rails.The bar is cut so it follows the hood,and also so the ends of the bumper are just slightly higher than the middle.Now to make some plates to wrap around and box the ends of the exposed chassis rails.Speaking of those anyone have any ideas on how to make it removable should the need arise?


Edited by Uberoo, 13 April 2015 - 08:34 PM.


#68 pontoontodd

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:57 PM

So I managed to start on the front bumper.Its 2x2x.120.It should be very strong especially after I tie it into the 4 chassis rails.The bar is cut so it follows the hood,and also so the ends of the bumper are just slightly higher than the middle.Now to make some plates to wrap around and box the ends of the exposed chassis rails.Speaking of those anyone have any ideas on how to make it removable should the need arise?

 

The 2 x 2 x .120 should be plenty strong.

You could run the new rails inside the stock frame and bolt them in from the top like the EJ cars.  Weld some nuts inside the new rails, drill holes in the top of the stock rails.  Probably best to put some kind of stop in the old rails so if you hit something too hard it doesn't just bend/shear the bolts.

Not sure what you mean by 4 chassis rails though.



#69 Uberoo

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 09:21 PM

The 4 chassis rails are the two lower box structures where the crossmember bolts to, and the other two are up top and run from the strut towers back into the firewall.



#70 Gloyale

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 11:34 AM

The 2 x 2 x .120 should be plenty strong.

You could run the new rails inside the stock frame and bolt them in from the top like the EJ cars.  Weld some nuts inside the new rails, drill holes in the top of the stock rails.  Probably best to put some kind of stop in the old rails so if you hit something too hard it doesn't just bend/shear the bolts.

Not sure what you mean by 4 chassis rails though.

 there are posts and reinforcement inside the stock rails that would prevent inserting tubing inside them.



#71 Uberoo

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 03:20 PM

Damn steel is heavy :(.I cut the front clip off and its single layer construction weighed 34 lbs.Just the front bumper as it currently sits is 15.25 lbs.Maybe I should learn how to make fiberglass or CF fenders and hood..






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