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Transmission/Clutch Problem


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I have an '82 GL 5 speed turbo wagon, 4 x 4, 350,000 miles, same tranny.  It worked great 2 days ago, except the clutch acted like maybe a bad throw-out bearing because the clutch/car would shake a little when starting out in first gear.  That problem has been going on for 2 years. It has not impcted driving.  So I drove it into the garage 2 nights ago. This morning it starts right up then they symptoms get wierd: I can't move the car, like something is holding onto the tranny or wheels.

1.  Stick shift "feels" normal and seems to move into each gear, stopped in the garage.

2.  If in nuetral and you let the clutch out, car acts like it is in a fwd gear (1 or 2),.. but stick is in nuetral position

3.  I put it in reverse and it won't move, like tranyy is saying reverse, but something else is preventing that.

4. Try to start car with clutch out, but in nuetral position,.. no go. IT wont start, acts like something is holding engine back, but starter will turn engine.

5.  I looked under car for obvious linkage issue and I dont see any.

6. Hand brake is off and verified rear wheels free.

 

Has throw-out bearing failure casued this?

Internal transmission failure?

differential? is there a front differential, I thought that was just the tranny.

 

Help!

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Stripped hubs and loose axle nuts cause multiple odd problems.

 

Set your ebrake hard. Start your car, put it in first gear and let the clutch out. Now, if you've gotten this far and your engine is still running, get out and go look at your axle nuts. If they spinning, you have a stripped hub or really loose axle nut.

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Ok. Well it probably isn't a stripped hub. You should probably look closer at your shifter linkage. If it's stalling in neutral position under these conditions, something is up with the linkage/internally maybe. I guess it could still be your clutch. I haven't had any weird clutch failure other than the normal slipping.

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But the clutch fork must be working if he's able to disengage and engage the clutch. If he holds the clutch in, the motor runs. If he lets the clutch out, the clutch apparently engages and stalls out the motor.

This seems to me to be more of a gear issue than a clutch issue...

Is this a dual range transmission, push button 4wd, or just a fwd 5 speed?

I bet the shifter linkage is messed up in some manner. If you can safely work under the car, if you undo the shifter linkage where it attaches to the transmission and drop it down so you can operate the linkage on the transmission itself, you can put it in neutral yourself to be sure it's in neutral and then start the car and see if it stalls again when you let the clutch out (in neutral)

I'm thinking that way you can verify whether it is the exterior linkage connecting the stick to the trans (if putting it in neutral by hand works), OR that it's an internal problem (if putting it in neutral by hand doesn't cause any difference)

The way you can tell it's in neutral by manipulating the transmission by hand is pretty straight forward

 

If you grab the linkage by hand it has three forward/backward positions you can push/pull it in to

 

all the way toward the front of the car is in gear

all the way toward the back of the car is reverse

it's that middle indentation that's neutral.

At least it happened with the car ALREADY IN the garage, yes? lol, maybe the car just doesn't want to go through winter this year =P

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This is a push button 4wd transmission. 

 

I had to go off on a 1 day trip, tomorrow I'll jack the front end see if I can get the wheels to move and also take a closer look and linkage with your suggestion. Thanks.  The wierd thing about all this is I never had any tranny problem in the 27 years I've owned it.  It ran perfectly when I parked it,. They I go to pull it out and then I have a problem. They only change that occurred is it rained a little. Don't know whether humidity can have anything to do with this.

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My mind kept popping back to you mentioning that too, but the fact that you can seemingly engage and disengage the clutch keeps fighting me from believing that.

 

I'd check on those things mentioned above before speculating further. Also, surprised nobody else has chimed in.

 

Did you try anything with the 4wd engaged?

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Update: I jacked each wheel, placed car in neutral.  Both rear wheels turn with no resistance. Both front wheels turn with no resistance ONLY when someone pushes the clutch in.  They both turn, but with moderate hand resistance either direction when the stick is in neutral position.  I do not hear any grinding or abnormal noise.

 

Linkage: I went under the car, there there is proper movement into and out of neutral, but I did not disconnect the pin yet. I admit, it it hard to know if it is in all the way and out all the way.  But I did work it back and forth with my hand.  I did notice significant wear on the bolt and play in the U shaped bracket which is part of the  bracket that pins to the rod that goes into the tranny and makes the car shift.

 

I put the car in neutral and was able to push it out of the garage, with moderate resistance. No bad noises.  It started it and let out the clutch in neutral and noticed significant drop in RPM (resistance somewhere), but it did not stall like it had been.  I backed it out and it drove normally through all gears. Never heard any strange noises.  In fact I do not notice the grabbing/chattering in first anymore.

 

So this all sounds wonderful, but my senses suggest it will come back.  AND I still don't know the problem!  

 

It's like the clutch is (was) partially engaged,.... getting back the the chattering on take up issue.  I don't know.

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I would first address the union between the shift linkage and the yoke it connects to on the transmission. You noticed significant wear? Check that all bolts and pins are tight. If they're not, tighten them.

 

Then I'd suggest throwing in a new clutch if you have the time and space and money to throw at it.

 

It is hard to make certain it's in neutral by hand, especially when all the linkage is still connected.

 

What is the significant drop in RPMs you mention? How much did they drop?

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The RPMs dropped from about 1900 to 1200.

 

What about a input shaft bearing? The chattering I had before may have been input shaft bearing. So when I let the clutch out I was turning the input shaft which may have gotten stuck in 1st or second.  I dont know.

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The same thing happened to me when my clutch plate spring came loose, the ones in the center on the disc itself. Shifting when the motor was off was fine but as soon as it was started I couldnt shift. I even took it to a shop to see if they knew what the weird chattering I had when starting in first gear was before it blew. The spring was bouncing around in there and lodging itself into weird places so it would work sometimes but not others. Try to get a mini flashlight into the clutchfork bootie and look into the starter hole with the starter removed, maybe with a little extension mirror and see if everything looks ok in there. I'm not guaranteeing you'll see anything, but you might. Look past the the pressure plate fingers and rotate the motor looking for fresh scratches on the dirty clutch plate. Heck, you might be able to see through the clutch fork bootie too. Good luck!

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that's a great idea and make the most sense at this point. I'll try that. Right now I am trying to manufacture some sort of bushings for the shifter linkage which is completely shot. I've looked all over the internet for bushings for an 87 or thereabouts and I can't find them. Thanks

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So Im trying to get the shifter linkage "u joint" out. It appears to be double (one inside the other) spring pinned to the shift rod coming out of the tranny.  I need to removed this connection because the joint bolt can't come out.  I've removed one spring pin but the other is a real booger and won't budge.  I don't want to hammer on it, I've been trying to press  it out like the other.  The only other way to remove that joint is somehow turn that rod, but I don't think it is able to turn. If I could turn it, I'd just drill the hole out.  I need it to turn almost 45 degrees.  Anyone know if this can be done. It looks as if they expect you to remove the tranny for this repair.

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