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2000 OBW no start overnight


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21 replies to this topic

#1 kabarakh

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:29 AM

Just finished putting rebuilt heads on awhile back, new timing components etc. Car has been running great for a week and then overnight it won't start. I'm getting fuel to the TB, and I'm getting spark.

Did I jump a tooth on my timing belt? Bad cam or crank sensor?

Thanks!
Clinton

#2 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:43 AM

will it fire if you spray starting fluid in the intake?

 

fuel pump cap/o-ring problem?


Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 09 September 2016 - 10:44 AM.


#3 kabarakh

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 11:00 AM

Didn't have any starting fluid on hand this morning, bit I'll give it a try this evening. If it does fire with it what might that indicate? Visually seems like I have plenty of fuel on the engine side of the hose.

#4 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 11:28 AM

if it fires with the fluid - points to fueling problem, something making the ECU inhibit injector firing , or no fuel pressure, 'maybe' bad fuel? etc.

 

nothing wrong with checking cam/crank timing.

 

scan for codes too.


Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 09 September 2016 - 11:29 AM.


#5 kabarakh

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 11:40 AM

I checked for codes this morning and had nothing, I'll follow up as soon as I can spray some fluid into it.

#6 kabarakh

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 06:41 PM

Staring fluid got me a nice backfire that lit my airfilter on fire but nothing else. Pulled the timing covers off and everything looks good. Any thoughts on where to look next?

#7 Fairtax4me

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:44 PM

That sounds like the timing is off, unless you sprayed way too much in there.

Can you take pics of all the marks?

#8 kabarakh

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:55 PM

I just double checked the timing and got it all back together, and the lines are nuts on. I can take a couple photos in the morning. Anything else it could be?

#9 Fairtax4me

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:24 PM

Only other thing I can think is the Fuel pump cap/o-ring problem that's common on the 00-04 models.

#10 kabarakh

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 03:23 PM

Photos of my timing belt marks are attached.  Can't get a good angle on the passengers side, but it's at 12, with the dash lining up with the crack/seam in the head.  Crank and drivers came are both at 12 as well.

 

Also pulled out the fuel pump to look a the O-ring, but I don't really see any canister like my research described... certainly nothing that was 2-1/8" at least.  Everything else in there looked ok to me, no o-rings peeking out anywhere.

 

Any other thoughts are appreciated!!!  I have spark, my timing appears to be accurate, fuel runs out on the engine side of the filter when I turn the key to 'on' as well as when i'm cranking.... but It still won't start!

 

 

 

 



#11 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 12:57 AM

well, that fuel pump is a surprise to me. Does it seem original?

 

and I don't like how that TB seems to be walking off the front of the crank sprocket.

 

 

at this point, I'm wondering about fuel pressure, maybe find a way to measure it. Or perhaps someone knows a way to test that fuel pump on the bench?



#12 kabarakh

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 10:03 AM

Yeah it all seemed original as far as I could tell. I don't have anything to test the pressure with, but I'm sure I could find something.

I was really hoping it was a sensor somewhere or something simple lol

#13 kabarakh

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 09:47 PM

Ok, so yesterday I took a closer look at the timing belt and it looked like it might have been slightly off so I went ahead and removed everything, slowly compressed the tensioner (over like 2 hours) and then reinstalled everything... Tried a couple seperate times again to start it afterwards and got nothing...

 

Today I got home and looked at the timing again, and lo and behold it looks to be off!  What's the deal?  I've done the belt before so I know my marks are on when I pull the pin on the tensioner.  Is the tensioner bad?  It's fairly old, but had never been used.... and the car ran great for two days.  Could the computer have been compensating for it slipping, and then when we went out to start it the next day it was too far out for the computer to let it start?

 

Photos below... it's the drivers side that looks to be off, by a tooth in the direction of the crank.  Is that enough to cause a no start condition as well as produce a backfire out the intake?  I would have thought that it would still run a tooth off, if badly.

 

Thanks for any and all input!

 

 

 



#14 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 10:27 PM

check the other idlers to see if they are wobbly. or maybe a cam pulley is cracked?

 

others may have better ideas.



#15 Fairtax4me

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 04:21 PM

I don't like to go by the notches in the timing covers. Timing covers are plastic and they can be persuaded into moving. How far off is it from the seam in the head? 

 

But even if its only a tooth off it should still start and run. 

 

Does it have a MAF sensor? 

 

Does your code reader show live data? 



#16 kabarakh

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:22 PM

It looks about the same amount off using the seam on the head, but nothing outrageous. And I believe it's a MAP sensor not MAF, it has a part number on it that when googled indicates MAP.

#17 Fairtax4me

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:18 PM

MAF sensor is next to the air filter.
MAP sensor is usually mounted directly on the manifold or throttle body on those.

I don't think 2000 legacy cars had a MAF but I can't ever seem to remember for sure.

#18 kabarakh

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:33 PM

Double post sorry

Edited by kabarakh, 13 September 2016 - 09:35 PM.


#19 kabarakh

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:33 PM

Yah its definitely a MAP sensor then, mounted just to the drivers side of the intake immediately after the air filter.

#20 amboy

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 02:58 AM

I had a similar problem last year.  Just finished a timing belt/water pump replacement, car would run great but overnight, I couldn't get enough juice to fire the engine in the morning.  I replaced the alternator, and used three new batteries.  I listen to the radio a lot, and especially enjoy the CD player.  I began to notice that when I would leave a CD in, the car would not start in the morning, but if the CD player was left empty, it would start every time.  So, as long as I do not leave a CD in the player, which evidently continued to drain the voltage from my battery, I no longer have the issue of the car not starting, and no longer have to waste my money buying alternators that I don't need, or wasting money on Optima and Interstate batteries.  This may not be your problem at all, but, then again. . .



#21 kabarakh

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:20 PM

Just wanted to follow-up in case any one else has this issue. It ended up being my crank sensor.

#22 grossgary

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:31 AM

thanks for the follow up and glad you got it back up and running with a simple fix!






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