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15 replies to this topic

#1 drquasievil

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 12:47 PM

You guys need to stop comparing Subs to Acuras, Lexus', Infinities, Volvos, Audis, and cars in that class.
Subs are great cars, but they are not high end. They are nitch cars. Why do you think Subaru decided to build all their cars with AWD? This was done so they would be at a class of their own and for a while, there were no or few competitions.

I have a 95 Legacy LS, great car but I would never compare it to my Acura, different car. I can't even compare it to the Audi AWD, different class. So enjoy what you have and don't compare it with others.

#2 North Ursalia

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 04:18 PM

I don't think anyone here 'needs' to do anything, especially when you have so little to back up your argument.

Originally posted by drquasievil
They are nitch cars


I have to point out that it's 'niche' btw ;)

Why do you think Subaru decided to build all their cars with AWD?


Because of the need to homologate the system for the WRC, and because of their successes in the WRC with said system.

This was done so they would be at a class of their own and for a while, there were no or few competitions.


How? The Audi Quattro system was around loooooong before Subaru's AWD system- they got kicked out of WRC competition for it.

I have a 95 Legacy LS, great car but I would never compare it to my Acura, different car.



Your Acura by definition is a niche car- it is the Honda "luxury" line available to the USA- it doesn't even exist in the country it is produced in.

I can't even compare it to the Audi AWD, different class.



Right- different price class; most Subarus cost about $10k less than AWD equipped Audi's. Subaru never claimed to have the most luxurious interiors, nor do they pretend to. Nor do they claim any vehicle they produce to be a luxury car/line. They are durable and utilitarian, without being a Freightliner ;)

#3 applegump

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 04:37 PM

The new Subarus aren't that different from the car brands mentioned. The main differences are the images produced by the marketing people. Audi used to be like VW in the 70s- 80s???? but they targeted a more upmarkt segment and they have achieved that.

Lexus= expensive toyota (sold in Japan?)
Infiniti= um anyone??:cornfuzz:
Audi= VW, Skoda, Seat,...

Same cars, with different grills and names, but underneath no very much different. :-)
Subarus are in a class of their own, but so are many other car brands, and comparing them to other cars is interesting and depending on the country these cars have different "competitors".

Nough said before this gets too long.:D

#4 wrxsubaru

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 05:14 PM

infinity=Nissian Why wouldent you compare your Acura to the Legacy? i would rather take the new modle legacy 04/05 over most if not all the new Acuras, or lexuses, that are in the same class.

#5 Setright

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 07:26 AM

Lexi (not Lexuses :D ) are sold in Japan by the name Toyota, which is what they are. eg. Toyota Altezza = Lexus IS


Anyway, no newer Audi (since ca. 1993) has been any good to drive. Stuff the fancy interior and trick electrics, I want steering feel, forgiving handling, and the thrum of a boxer engine....

#6 ScoobySchmitty

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Setright
Stuff the fancy interior and trick electrics, I want steering feel, forgiving handling, and the thrum of a boxer engine....



Can I get a HELL YEAH on that?!


ScoobySchmitty:banana:

#7 drquasievil

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 09:21 AM

It's amazing how ignorant and close minded some people are. No one said Subarus are bad cars. But I continue to see people who compare these vehicles to luxury cars and they are not, look at sales, customer satisfaction. I am going to leave it at that.
Josh, don't blame me for enticing a riot. There is a difference between someone who's expressing an opinion and someone who is ignorant about the topic. You decide who's who.

#8 DerFahrer

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 10:04 AM

Luxury is as subjective as beauty, people...

I consider both my cars luxury cars, because their personality, their ease of repair, their reliability, and their immense fun factor are great luxuries to me.

Getting bathed in Connolly leather, a ride smooth as glass, and having every electronic amenity is fine and all, but that doesn't impress me. I would much rather bop along down the road in my cloth seats, playing with my radio, having barrel-of-monkeys fun...

So let's consider this before we start pointing fingers and putting words in other people's mouths...

#9 Guest_lothar34_*

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 11:23 AM

Auto Express magazine has an exclusive first sketch of the new car, based on information from sources inside Subaru.




Where's the sketch?

#10 applegump

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 12:29 PM

drquasievil: About customer satisfaction, in the UK at least, Subaru has been number 1 :clap: at LEAST three times and about sales, well I don't think that proves anything.
If you consider Audi a luxury car, then how is it that, most (at least in europe) have steel wheels, no leather etc? Maybe people want the image but can't afford the luxury.
Some subarus on the other hand come standard with Leather, alloys, Navigation system, etc (Legacy Sedan 3.0ltr), so you could call the Subaru luxury and the Audi just expensive.

#11 Flo4Legacy

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 02:48 PM

Today I I've been at at the IAA in Frankfurt/Germany.

And of course, the first I did was visiting the Subaru booth.

There was the beauty, the new Legacy (and Outback). I started to examine the 3.0 Wagon, took a seat and a look into the engine bay. All I have to say is: I am really impressed. Ok, for a Subaru, this is in fact a luxury car (although with sporty roots). It is a big step forward compared to the current model. It is also as good as other brands (Audi, Mercedes, BMW ...). Also the base model (2.0 in Germany) is very nice - in lack of leather but with very very fine seats!

But I don't need to compare this Subaru with other brands! I love Subaru for what the are doing and it's always been another way of feel to drive a Subaru than any other brand. Of course, there are details that could be better. Or Subaru could offer more options. But what do you do with all the options if the base is no good??? I was on a business trip and drove our BMW 525d (diesel) over 1300 km. It is really a good car. But after that trip a brought the BMW to the company and got back my Sube. The Sube is not that silent as the BMW - but after I drove home I knew why I love my Subaru. You can't compare the sporty driving of the Sube with the "comfortable" driving of the BMW.

I have to say there is something right with that what drquasievil said. A Subaru just can't be compared with other makes. And we all could be happy that Subaru don't tries to imitate Audi, BMW or Mercedes! Imagine what car we would get! No thanks. Subaru is doing a great job and they always looked for good technical solutions that don't have to be mainstream - but still are good (or even better).

BTW, even I compared the prices of the new Legacy 3.0 with an Audi A4 3.0 (although smaller) and a BMW 530i. Not that I would be interested in buying that cars - only to see what the price differences are. The Audi was 7000 Euro more (incl Quattro) and the BMW was 10000 Euro more (without AWD) - all models with comparable options.

Ok, hope this is not to much of a commercial for Subaru ... :wave:

But what I saw today - I am just impressed! :slobber:

Don't know what the options for the US will look like, but I am sure that it is worth the wait!

#12 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 03:46 PM

Woah. Im not going to read all of that. What the doc said was enough for me to state my opnion.
I havent owned any EJ series subaru's, but ive been around Subaru's long enough to know a thing or two. The one question I want to ask is, when was the last time Honda, Acura, or Lexus released a production race car like Subaru has done with the STi. The only other honda's i hear about are "type R" or some crap like that and its usually a civic with a 4" exhaust and a shiney intake.

And Subaru is not just a nitch cars. They created and pionered the AWD passenger vehicle class. in '74 when they implimented 4WD, the only other option was a small toyota truck or some chevy.

If I recall, there were plenty of AWD passenger cars that tried to compete with Subaru. Honda being one of them with that SORRY excuse for a 4WD Wagon. The Toyota Tercel tried and did well, but failed with the SR5 4WD Wagon.

Nowadays we have Volvo, Saab, Audi, oh and dont forget Mitsubishi.

So i think we have reason to compare our subie's to your wide selection of overpriced imports.

-Brian

#13 86subaru

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 08:04 PM

i have a horse and buggy pay no high gas bills , made right here in the USA . :banana:

#14 Setright

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Posted 18 September 2003 - 12:38 AM

ScoobySchmitty:



Hell Yeah!!!

#15 Flo4Legacy

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Posted 20 September 2003 - 04:49 AM

Hey, I want a horse, too! Is it cheaper than a new Legacy??? :confused:

Yesterday I had the opportunity to test drive the new model.

Unforunately it was only the 2.0 engine with 138 HP. But I was really surprised how quick the new Legacy is - this engine isn't bad at all! It's similar to my current 2.5 Legacy. Think that has something to do with the weight loss.

The driving feel is improved. The car turns easier into to corners, and you you have a "safer" while driving.

It's too hard for me to describe all the details that has been improved. But if you drive it, you surely will see what's gotten better.

BTW, I don't understand why Subaru introduces the new models at different dates to several countries. First Japan, then Europe, than US. That's nearly a marketing suicide! :madder:

#16 applegump

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Posted 20 September 2003 - 06:26 AM

Flo4Legacy: Maybe Subaru didn't have enough capacity to supply everyone so they split it up....
Movie release dates are the same way for some reason....




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