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crank pulley wobbling?!?! and some strange noise


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66 replies to this topic

#1 greenleg88

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:19 PM

from visual inspection on my 97 legacy L

the crank pulley doesn't look like its rotating aroudn its center.
it looks like its wobbling.. should i be concerned?

also when it was revved this morning.. right as its getting back to about 1100 rpm it sounds like somethign in the engine bay that is spinning. is loose and settling back into position as it slows... honestly i have no idea what im talking about but it sounded liek it was coming from inside the block....

#2 OB99W

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:40 PM

the crank pulley doesn't look like its rotating aroudn its center.
it looks like its wobbling.. should i be concerned?

Assuming the mounting bolt is properly tightened, it may be that the crank pulley itself is the cause. The pulley is made of two pieces of metal, joined by a rubber section that sometimes fails. You should be concerned enough to take care of the problem as soon as possible. It might also be the cause of the noise you're hearing, if the pulley sections are loose enough.

#3 nipper

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:40 PM

Yes be worried. Try not to drive the car untill we figure this out. This is a 2.2L engine. When was the last time the timing belt was changed? You can have either a failing vibration damper (annoying) or a vibration damper that is working its way off (bad). The latter can damage the end of the crankshaft.


how many miles? (always post that info). Is the noise a spinning noise or a rattle kind of noise. If it is a spinning noise, where theere isnt much there to make that noise. Putting water on the fan belt and pullies would tell you if the noise is coming from that end of the engine.

#4 OB99W

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:57 PM

Here's someone's experience with crank pulley failure, complete with pictures:
http://www.subarufor...re-beware-7969/

#5 shortskoolbus

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:07 PM

i had that problem before too... my woodruf key was destroyed.

only way to find out is to take off the pulley and check

#6 nipper

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:29 PM

Here's someone's experience with crank pulley failure, complete with pictures:
http://www.subarufor...re-beware-7969/



thats the first time i ever heard the pully called a wear part.

nipper

#7 avk

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:12 PM

It may be a good idea to check the rubber for cracks when changing the timing belt. I replaced the pulley because of that.

#8 shortskoolbus

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:03 PM

I don't know if my car is different or what, but i don't see any rubber.. it's metal on metal right on the woodruff key

#9 ericem

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:22 PM

Happened to me as well. Timing should not go off either. Go to your dealer, and get the harmonic pulley, and a woodruff key. When you need to remove the original one that will be bent etc... just try and wiggle it out as best you can with pliers. I found it was possible by pulling up and forward, up and forward and keep repeating till it comes out and don't drop it in the timing cover like I did haha. Although I used a magnet and got it out. Clean up the area a bit and pop in the new key, and put your harmonic pulley on, and torque the center bolt to a good 140ft-lbs!

Trying to think if I am forgetting about something else. Oh ya don't leave your hood open in the rain, right after fixing it in the rain alternator died....

#10 greenleg88

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:25 PM

the car has 158k miles.

just found the reciept and realized at 144k the timing belt was also done with the crank seal, cam seal, valve cover gasket

since then, the oil leak at the crank seal has come back.

what is a vibration damper? - is that the rubber around the pulley?

my initial thought would have described it as a rattle.

and the car hasn't been driven in a few days. i just started it to do a slight inspection of everything and perhaps do the oil change. i have to drive the 380 miles back home to long island this saturday....
but i just ran into that popped tire and now this....


thanks for all the help!



if that rubber around the center of the pulley is the culprit.. does that explain why the belts have been squeaking so much recently...? especially when the AC turns on..?

Edited by greenleg88, 19 May 2009 - 10:28 PM.
had a potential AHA moment..


#11 ericem

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:28 PM

Ya ************ happens. Shops when they do the work they follow there haynes manual probably which states to torque that bolt to 70ft-lbs which is not enough obviously and the bolt loosens over time. FSM states 140ft-lbs.

#12 greenleg88

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:42 PM

Ya ************ happens. Shops when they do the work they follow there haynes manual probably which states to torque that bolt to 70ft-lbs which is not enough obviously and the bolt loosens over time. FSM states 140ft-lbs.



so you feel if i just loosen the tensioner.. take the pulley off.. inspect. and if it checks out throw it back on and make sure i torque it to 140 i should be aright then? otherwise get a new pulley?

#13 nipper

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:44 PM

Ok do not drive the car untill you have this figured out.

The big wobbly pulley is a vibration damper. It is to steel rings with a peice of rubber in the middle.

I am concenred because of the two things you just stated. If the Damper is not properly tightend, with time it can work itself loose and damage the nose of the crankshaft. This can happen 1000's of miles later. The oil leak may be related.


The noise may be the loose pulley.

have someone look at that this car ASAP, and dont drive it.

#14 greenleg88

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:02 PM

oh. okay. i just didn't know that it was referred to as a vibration damper.
i had just heard it called the crank pulley and the harmonic balancer...

alright.. so what do you suggest? i have it towed to a dealer? preferably i would just get it to a small shop around here..

what do you expect to be the outcome... and perhaps the cost..

im just a really broke college student..

#15 nipper

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:06 PM

Can the broke college student change a fanbelt?

#16 greenleg88

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:10 PM

can i? yes, ive done done part of the work when my friend put on a lightweight crank pulley on his subaru.

#17 avk

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:13 PM

The cost of the pulley might be an issue here. There's an aftermarket version (Dorman) for $50-something.

#18 nipper

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:15 PM

Cool remove the accessory drive belt then inspect the pulley, you will be able to feel if it is loose. You may need some sort of leverage to check, but you will know. In fact if it is loose as soon as you take the belt of it may move.

Also check the bolt.

#19 greenleg88

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:41 AM

alright. well ill get on that asap.

just so i know. how much belt deflection should i be tensioning the belt to?
i dont see a value in this haynes manual..


and someone said 140 lb for the crank pulley i see in the FSM
Tightening torque: N⋅m (kg-m, ft-lb)
T2: 127±10 (13.0±1.0, 94±7)

so 94 +/- 7 ...?

i actually didn't find anything in the haynes..

Edited by greenleg88, 20 May 2009 - 01:46 AM.


#20 shortskoolbus

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:52 AM

basically 100 ft lb.

the belt is tensioned by a hydraulic tensioner it's not adjustable.

Hm i have a 97 L too.. everyone is talking about a rubber thing? i'm really confused, my crank pulley is all metal.. something amiss on my car?

#21 nipper

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 05:59 AM

the belt is tensioned by a hydraulic tensioner it's not adjustable.


We are talking about the accessory drive belt right now, not the timing belt.


The drive belt is adjusted by a screw type mechanisim.

nipper

#22 OB99W

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 07:56 AM

the car has 158k miles.

just found the reciept and realized at 144k the timing belt was also done with the crank seal, cam seal, valve cover gasket


As has been mentioned already, it's not uncommon for the crank pulley bolt to be insufficiently tightened after a timing belt job. Depending on how much torque was applied, it can gradually work loose (sometimes over thousands of miles of use).


if that rubber around the center of the pulley is the culprit.. does that explain why the belts have been squeaking so much recently...? especially when the AC turns on..?

A squeal/squeak with loading from an accessory like the A/C can be due to the drive belt not being under enough tension -- that could happen if the crank pulley bolt is loose. It's also possible for that noise to occur if the pulley's rubber failure is complete enough for the pulley sections to be slipping with respect to each other.

I'd suggest first trying to tighten the crank pulley bolt. If you can, and the wobble goes away, then the pulley itself is probably okay. If the bolt is already tight enough, it's more likely that the pulley's rubber is failing.

#23 greenleg88

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 12:25 PM

okay so i just went down to begin.. but first i just checked the tighness of the bolt holding the pulley on.. and it came loose without any effort.


upon tightening the whole system just spins.. i remember we put my friends car in gear. but i have an automatic...

#24 shortskoolbus

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:22 PM

Look at the last few pages of this thread:

http://www.ultimates...?t=98200&page=5

The method used to break the bolt loose can also be used to tighten it.

#25 OB99W

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:49 PM

The following link has a post by porcupine73 with a picture showing how to access the ''port''. I'd suggest not disturbing the TPS mounting screws if you can at all avoid that.
http://www.subaruout...&threadid=15014




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