Subarunation 713

Well here is the wrap up. Changed the water pump, idlers, tensioner and timing belt. Set the timing marks per the manual. Got all the sensors, plugs and wires back where they needed to be. Verified all of the connections I had already verified (nervous that way). Turned the key and it fired right up. After I knew it would run I double checked all the torqued bolts (nervous that way) and buttoned everything back up. Replaced accessory belts, cleaned out the radiator again (nervous that way.... can you see a pattern? ) and filled it with new coolant. Seemed like it took FOREVER to get all the air bubbles out of the radiator but I tried the tricks I learned from USMB over the years and sure enough got the air out and the coolant circulating. In retrospect if my other Outback -after driving 45 miles today- was to die tomorrow after running for 30-45 seconds I would probably trouble shoot the same way. I would do fuel delivery first then check for spark. If I had fuel and spark on 1-2 but not 3-4 I would probably go in the same order: coil if ok > igniter if ok > continuity if ok > sensors if ok > ECU. If you hear hoof beats look for horses. This was the very RARE situation when I heard hoof beats and looked for horses but it turned out to be a zebra. THANK YOU to everybody who gave suggestions and technical information. I truly and genuinely appreciate it.

Brief update. When I took the covers off and tried to see where the timing was the crank sensor and cam sensor were not even in the same ZIP code. The upper idler pulley on the passenger side of the engine was completely apart, ball bearings everywhere and it was so hot the seals had melted into little puddles. It provides no tension for the crank sprocket so the sprocket moves and randomly "pulls" the timing belt along. The water pump is indeed shot. Turns hard and grinds. The back of the timing belt has a continuous burn mark the entire way around the smooth side of the belt. Conclusion. Subarus are awesome! Any car that starts and runs for 30-45 seconds, in the condition the timing components were in on this car, is a VERY durable machine! I am glad we are a two driver family with four cars and a motorcycle so I don't feel any pressure to get this done RIGHT NOW!!! But I will keep you in the loop as I make progress. Right now I am cleaning up two decades of gunk..... well right now I am playing on the computer so I don't have to clean. :-)

I have continuity between the igniter and the coil and between the igniter and the ECU. Here in lies problem #1. My car is from 9-95 and my wife's is from 5-96 so our ECUs are different. Problem #2, the crank sensor would not come out of my car. I wasn't going to wreck a working sensor to see if another sensor was good or bad. If it ever has to come out it will be by breaking it apart. Since I had time and I had another task to do anyway I buttoned my car up and focused on my wife's. I took the timing cover off and all of the reluctor teeth are on the crank sprocket but the timing belt was SCREWED UP! The idler below the power steering pump (passenger side) was coming apart. I could see ball bearings in several places. I think the reason for the ignition issues was the cam sensor and the crank sensor thought each was speaking a different language the timing was so far off!! I am going to proceed with the water pump, tensioners, idlers, and timing belt and God willing I think it will run with no issues. I won't be back to it until Friday. I will report with the process. Thanks to everybody for their help and suggestions. I am grateful two things #1, wherever the car was last time my wife went anywhere that it got home. #2, that it broke down in the driveway and didn't go any further.

Excellent suggestion. It was filthy as was the crank sensor. Cleaned them both. Still, no spark. :-(

You and Fairtax4me both mentioned the teeth on the crank sprocket. Is this a high percentage option? I would think broken teeth on a running car would be a 0.0000001% chance. Has this become a higher risk thing on the EJ22? Please understand, I am not being argumentative, just curious. A broken trigger on a gear sprocket or an ECU where would you place your bet? I will see the sprocket soon enough. I do appreciate everybody's input.

Well it is getting power thus the spark on cylinder one and two. Nevertheless I cleaned the ground surfaces with the same outcome.

Checked the plugs and wires. Continuity between the igniter and the coil and it isn't the igniter. I haven't been in there in a long time. Went from Greek Islands to Sammy's and I think it is Lydia's now?? Help me understand what you mean by reluctor teeth? and is this done without pulling the TB cover? I am thinking ECU after having checked the wiring between the igniter and the coil. Maybe tomorrow I will pull the ECU out of my OBW and put it in her OBW. It is nice we have two identical cars to swap things between. When I replace the water pump/seals/timing belt/idlers/tensioner I will have access to the belt and can see the gears. Still, the timing would not mean spark on half the coil and not the other. If it had jumped timing there would still be spark, just at the wrong time.

No Idea, I bought it used. The new one is in a box on the floor next to me. Don't suppose that helps :-) The water pump developed a wee drip so I got all the goodies including a new belt. Currently sitting with about 135K miles. ocei77, I found a good coil I had on the shelf and tried it. Same outcome. No spark on 3-4. :-(

As mentioned in my first post I already took the coil off of my car and put it one her car with no success. I then put the coil from her car on my car and my car ran. Other than swapping coils how do you test a coil?

One more item eliminated. Took the spark plug leads off of my car and put them on her car. Her car still had no spark on 3-4. Put the leads back on my car and my car runs normally.

Additional items tended to. Took off both battery connectors, cleaned connectors and posts. While battery was disconnected cleaned ground from battery to engine. While battery was disconnected (and brake pedal pushed for 30 seconds to rid any residual current) disconnected and inspected ECU connection. Visually no corroded or white powdery connections or pins. Again, only visual. While battery was disconnected I took of the ignitor, cleaned any corrosion off of mating surfaces and put di-electric grease of plug. While battery was disconnected I took off the coil pack and cleaned all surfaces and put di-electric grease on plug. Reattached plug leads but before doing so slightly spread all bullet connectors going into the coil and made sure they were clean and not burned. Reatttached battery connections. Spark on cylinders one and two but no spark on cylinders three and four. Remember it started normally and ran normally for 30-45 seconds before dying out. Background, this was a CO car for a large portion of it's 20 years. Things are clean and moderately rust free compared to my pile of rust that has been driven in northern IN and southwest MI nearly it's entire life.

Been a long time since I kicked around USMB. Tried searching but didn't come up with this one. We have two 96 OBW with 5 speeds and 2.2 engines. Here is what happened. My wife started up her car this morning and began to back out of the driveway. After running for about 30-45 seconds the car died and would not restart. Here is what was done (in order). Fuel before filter when key turned on? Yes, plenty. Fuel after filter when key turned on? Yes, plenty. Pulled spark plugs they were wet with gas. Checked spark, present is cylinders one and two but NOT in three or four. Took coil off of my car and put it on here car and her coil on my car. My car still ran, her car still no spark on the back cylinders. Took the ignitor off of my car and put it on her car and put her ignitor on my car. My car still ran, her car still no spark on the back cylinders. So I am wondering what causes the front two cylinders to have spark but not the back two cylinders? Open to suggestions! Thanks in advance.

Thank you! Too bad the photo link is dead but the discussion is the one I remember. Thanks a ton! As you can see from my post count I don't comment often even though this has been an EXCELLENT reference for nearly a decade.

A long time ago on an USMB forum much different than today was a link for a 22/25 swap. I had it bookmarked but that was two computers ago. If I remember it was a dark green Outback. It had pictures and a real good writeup. I did a search but there are so many threads with "ej22 to ej25 swap" that it was nearly impossible to find. Do any of you "oldtimers" (or "newtimers with better search skills than me) remember what I am talking about and could point me in the right direction? Thanks!

Thanks for the heads up!

But if that were the case the phase I would be 97-98 and phase II 99-01. Every 99 Legacy I have seen with a 2.2 has been phase II which is easily defined by the spark plugs coming through the middle of the head. But all of that is immaterial. I have a hard to find 2.2 phase II and I need to find another. If the 00-01 Impreza is the same engine, ecu and connectors then it broadens my search of potential donors.

dry as a bone When I got the car it was soaked with oil and the bottom of the front engine cover was dripping with oil. So when the previous owner said it was taking oil I (and most anybody) would have thought it was leaking it. Well it was but it was also burning it. Hard to tell when the back of the car was spotted with oil. Still, there really isn't that much soot on the back of the car right now. Maybe it runs so well and accelerates so well because the power it is getting from an extra 1/4 cup of oil every revolution! :-) Replaced the front main seal, front cam seals, water pump, idlers and timing belt. So it is sealed up tight! Well I can understand that. There are many things different from a 95 2.2 than a 99 2.2. The 95 has hydraulic lifters, non interference and is phase I. The 99 is a phase II, solid lifter and an interference engine. Then there are single port and EGR considerations.

So the three monster connectors are going to hook up and the ECU will like things just dandy? Why the heck doesn't Hollander Exchange (the junkyard software) recognize it? I know you can answer the first part but unless you are a programmer for the software company the second part may be a little harder. :-) Funny thing, the car really runs well. You would think there would be a HUGE cloud behind me but no. It starts, idles, accelerates and no CEL. But even cheap Wal-Mart oil at $11 for five qts is getting expensive. Thanks!

I did several searches for 99 engine swaps. Found a lot of confusion. I have a 99 Legacy wagon, 5 speed with a phase II 2.2. I have owned two 99s. A wagon (current) and a 5 speed sedan (former daily driver) and contrary to some both have had the phase II. My wagon is sucking oil and I mean SUCKING!! Like a court every 150 miles. Oddly, when I am going down the road there is no cloud of smoke behind me and I get 27-30 mpg. The second nail in the coffin on this engine is the rod knock right before a shift point. Subaru in all of their genius used this engine on the 99 Legacy only. The 00-01 Impreza is supposed to have a phase II 2.2 also. Nevertheless, the Hollander exchange will not show these two engines as compatible. What will the difference be between a phase II in an Impreza and a phase II in a Legacy? I don't think I can reuse my heads without rebuilding them because the valve seals must be SHOT! I just want to put new seals and gaskets on a donor engine, drop it in, connect it up and drive into the sunset. If it means a new Y pipe, I think I can do that or I don't mind reusing my old intake stuff from the Legacy engine if that is all it will take. But taking off heads and doing new head gaskets and all of that, I would be money ahead just buying a more expensive Legacy engine. Because of the low numbers of Impreza engines the cost isn't all that much different. Just proximity. Any advice? Or any takers on a 99 Legacy wagon with a "slight" oil consumption problem?! :-) Now I realize I am going to sound like a jerk so forgive me, but if you don't know there is no reason to respond. I got all of the "I think", "I heard", "it is supposed to" or "somebody told me" answers in the searches I did. If I want guesses I can go re-read the "2.2 engine swap" searches. Once again, sorry for being so abrupt but I just want to cut to the chase. Thanks.

Grossgary already mentioned the 99 2.2 as harder to find. If I were to get another Legacy I would stay away from the 99. A nationwide Hollander search (excluding CA spec) shows about 55 used 2.2s for the 99 Legacy and some of those are parts only engines. Do the same search for earlier model 2.2s and there are more like 55 MILLION! (give or take a few) :-)

The best matchup for the "Frankenstein" is Phase II to Phase II. Go to NASIOC , there is a 75 year 43.96 million post thread. This is post #329: engine block + heads= "Best" p2 2.5 + p2 2.2: highest compression ratio (stock gasket) better manifold options, decient heads Good p1 2.5 + p2 2.2 again good manifold options and decient heads p2 2.5 + p1 2.2 dual ports (header options & possible better flow than single ports) p1 2.5 + p1 2.2 dual ports Ok p2 2.5 + p1 2.2 single ports p1 2.5 + p1 2.2 single ports thats for running completely stock, aka slaping it together and going. FWIW I too have a 99 Legacy 2.2 with a rod knock. I don't know what to do either. Finding a decent 99 ph II 2.2 is HARD. Do I want to spend $1300 to have it rebuilt so I have a 99 Legacy wagon worth $1500 and an engine worth nearly as much as a car? Do I sell it as is? Who wants a car with a rod knock and using oil? Silly Subaru, one year for an engine. Cripes!

grossgary and GD, THANKS! Now I know the garage that quoted me $1200 for a leakdown test and a valve adjustment (because the engine had to be pulled to do it) was, lets see, full of CRAP! goof_ball was kind enough to email the PDF of the shop manual on this procedure so with his PDF and your comments I am all set. eppoh, I think jacking the car up is a little easier than trying to contort this old out of shape body! :-) Who knows, maybe in 2016 somebody may bring this thread back. Until then, may "searches" find it useful.

Well I don't think anybody was doubting the need to do a valve adjustment and the solid lifter question was answered over five years ago. I kind of brought the thread back from hibernation! :-) But the question I still have is the valve adjustment on a 99 2.2 going to be shims or screw type adjusters? It sounds like you know your way around a Subaru engine so any help you could give me I would appreciate. Thanks, Greg

Follow up on my no compression issue. Last Sunday I had to leave for work for the majority of the week. Before I left I thought, "what the heck" and poured some of my home brewed penetrating oil (50% acetone/50% ATF) in the cylinder and left it sit. When I got back i left the spark plug out and turned it over to clear the fluid (didn't want hydro lock). I put the spark plug back in and fired it up. SMOKE, holy COW did it SMOKE! Like Seafoam cubed smoke. I left it run until the smoke cleared. Now it seems like I have some compression on the cylinder. I haven't run a compression test but there is more power. Sounds like I have a broken ring.... or two. Still going to sell it. At 220K miles it isn't worth putting any money into it. Nice CLEAN AZ car? sure, maybe worth a rebuild but a SW Mich car in the heart of lake effect snow country with all of that salt? nope.

Thought I would bring this thread back from a FIVE year hiatus! grossgary, how did this come out? do you even remember? I have a 99 2.2 and I need to adjust the valves and my manual only goes to 98. Was yours shims or was it threaded adjusters as Shawn mentioned? Anything to be aware of or anything tricky or is it pretty straight forward?