subsince77

It's also possible that I misunderstood what she said. i had just read the post about the reservoir O-ring before the call. Maybe she meant one of the seals you mention, and I had O-ring on the brain. Whatever the case, it was something that they see a lot. The problem isn't serious, so I'll let them check it out in the nice warm, dry shop, then decide what to do from there. Thanks for all the info, and I'll let ya know what happens.

Yeah, both would probably be ideal. We generally only have three or four nights that are -30 or colder (sometimes as low as -39). We have between 5 and 25 nights that are -20 or colder. This winter has been exceptionally cold. The car always starts just fine, and doesn't make much noise even without the heater, but you can tell a big difference with it. The only reason I was thinking about getting the block heater was that right now the engine will be out making it much easier to install. It turns out that what I have been told about having to "punch the plug out" is not true. Since the plug is actually removable by a normal human, I may install one before next winter. But for now, pan heater. A warm garage would really be nice.

I might be interested in that, but I won't know for two weeks. I talked to Emily at CCR this morning about the engine exchange, and in the course of that conversation mentioned the P/S pump. She immediately said that it was probably the little O-ring between the reservoir and the pump, and that they would put a new one on when they swap the engine - no problem (those guys are really great to work with). But, if that doesn't fix it, I'd rather buy a resealed one from someone on this site than buy a remanned one anywhere else. Thanks

Like I said, I've always used a pan heater. Nearly everyone here uses some type of heater, but for some reason I had always had it in my head that a block heater was simply superior. After thinking it through, obviously I want the oil warm, that's why I've always used a pan heater. And obviously a block heater is not going to accomplish that. I had already decided to stick with what has been working at -35 for the last 12 years. I do run synthetic too. I am just going to pick up another pad and stick it on my new clean oil pan. Thanks

Either way it looks like a really simple thing to change. I'm wondering about that O-ring, I wonder if I can get one. It is the one with the tank on top. That would explain why the pump seems to just keep working fine, and leak point is not real obvious. I didn't even look up under there. I think I will leave it alone through the change, then get it really clean and check it out once the weather breaks. I don't have much available through junk yards in the area. I can buy from online outfits, but I usually like to see and handle junk yard parts. Anyway, thanks.

The P/S pump on my 97 OBW, 2.5L DOHC has had a avery small leak for quite some time. I'm not completely sure where it is leaking, but the fluid pools right behind it on top of the engine, and sometimes runs down the front. It never makes any noise, and works fine, but I have to add several ounces of fluid maybe every two months. This isn't a big deal, but now I'm putting the CCR engine in, so I'm thinking of replacing the pump. Any experience with this leakage? Any experience with different kinds of P/S pumps. Obviously the Subaru model costs about twice as much as an after-market. Which would be recommended? Thanks

Just an update. I'll be calling Emily tomorrow to set up an engine exchange in a couple of weeks. I remembered that my power steering pump has a leak, so I'll probably pick up a new one for the new engine. Other than that, I think we are set. I have been driving the car every day for the last couple of weeks with no sign of overheating. I am staying close to home though, and rarely doing any driving over 50 mph, and only about 30 miles/day. The car starts and runs perfectly every day. I am looking into a trailer for taking it to Denver. Sounds like it will only take 2 days to get it done. We have had a constant stream of winter storms, so I'm hoping for a break. Not looking forward to the bill, but it will be so good to trust the car again. It will take months to break the habit of looking at the temp gauge every 3 seconds. Maybe I'll settle on every 10 seconds.:-\

Thanks Emily. Thought I had read your email wrong. Guess not.

You also need a different intake manifold for to swap to the 2.2L. I don't have a nearby source for such things. CCR quoted me $400 for that, so that brought the 2.2 up to $2650. You will also get some money back for your core if its in good shape on either engine. I think those prices include shipping to you also. No doubt the 2.2 has some benefits in terms of reliability.

If you are at 102k, then you are within 3k of the timing belt and all that goes with it job, and valve adjustment. When I did mine last time (113k) I also rebooted the axles. For me, adding the cost of that job to the HG job, is what prompted me to go with the rebuild. But, I am at 200k, not 100k, so I also wanted the heads gone through (another $500). You are probably still in a better position to just do the HG and timing belt etc., assuming the rest of the engine is sound. My engine still runs so well, burns no oil, get good milage, seems to have the power it ever did, that I hate to trade it out. CCR says they have NEVER had a return on the updated head gaskets, so hopefully they are that much better. If so, I like my 2.5 even though it is a pain to do something as simple as change the plugs on it. Stupid, but I can live with that every 100k or so.

This really doesn't matter at this point, but I replaced the coil pack on my 97 OBW with an IDENTICAL one from NAPA for just over $100. Must have cost $300 for the dealer to R&R 4 bolts. Sounds like a bad dealership. Your brother is lucky to have you.

I don't know what this is worth, but a couple of years ago my Outback Wagon rolled after I had parked it in gear on a slight incline. The temp that morning was -36. It slipped a little starting out from a stop a couple of weeks later on a -29 morning. After that I had no problems for several months, then the clutch did go out. That was at 175,000 so I figured it had done its job. Cold seems to be a factor.

OK, now that's interesting. I guess I thought that the block heater would warm the water in the block causing it to circulate a bit maybe, and in turn warm everything including the oil. Even as I'm typing that, it sounds highly optimistic. Yeah, I want the oil to move cause at more than about 25 below even synthetic is like molasses. Any other opinions on this, 'cause you can't trust anybody from Montana! (Just kidding I have friends and family there.) Oh, and I never use Fram filters.

I'm probably not the guy to answer you here, certainly not mechanically anyway. But, I'm going through it right now too. The old Outback finally blew the HG. It showed some signs off and on for a few months, but finally overheated last week in the manner you describe - no heat, couldn't get it back under control. Before that I could always just shut it down for a few minutes, or rev it like you said. Even now, until I collect the money for the repair, I'm driving it around close to home. I never did let it get real hot, and right now you would never know it has a problem. I've driven it for the last 6 days with no sign of trouble. So, maybe you can eek a few more miles out if you are so inclined. As for repairing it, mine seems to still be a great engine in every other way. However, it was at the point of needing all the timing belt/seals/water pump/oil pump and valve set stuff at 200,000 miles anyway. When I combine the expense of that with an HG job, I decided to spend a little more and get a rebuilt from CCR. Only you can decide if you want to keep the car. I couldn't buy a newer Outback for what an engine will cost. Maybe your repair would be less and therefore worth it. In my opinion, it depends on if you like the car, what condition the rest of it is in, and what you will have for the money when you are finished. I think I'll easily put another 100,000 on this one. Just some thoughts, hope it helps.

I had always been told that it is pretty hard to get the plug out, and that there was a danger of ending up with it inside the engine. But looking at these pictures, I can't see how that would happen. I don't have any impact tools, but other than that, it really does look easy.

I use a timer also for our two oil pan heaters most of the time. Last week, when we were having overnight temps between -33 and -38, and daytime highs around -15, I just let them run all night. They are only 150 watts, and they don't seem to get hot enough to harm the oil at all at those temps. I am going to see if CCR will just install a block heater for me when they build the engine. Thanks

Great! I found the subaru block heater on one of the online sites, subarupartsforyou I think. Looks good, does this thing go into a freeze plug hole? Haven't needed a battery heater. The car always starts just fine. But at these temps I think the wear reduction over the years is huge.

Hmmm, didn't know they made one. Guess I'll check that out. Thanks.

Hi all, I have always used a simple oil pan heater in the winter here. We have many starts at more than 20 - 25 below zero every year, and usually a few at more than 30 below. I have just used the glue-on oil pan heaters because they are easy to put on, and pretty effective. In a few weeks my OBW will be getting a "new" rebuilt engine from CCR. I am thinking that this is the time to have a better heater installed while the engine is on a bench. I have never really researched the other ones, the freeze plug models, or the ones that heat the water. Can anyone make a recommendation on type and even model? Thanks

Good points. That also lets me off the hook for a very cold ride to Denver. Also, it should be quick for them to determine that my engine is in good shape. It ran great today. Wow, thinking of a lawsuit and the car is still sitting in the front yard. I'm sure that's all true, but I'm not anticipating any problems with CCR:)

Thanks everyone. My wife and I were both leaning toward the CCR engine. I just have to figure out how to get it to Denver. That is 4.5 hours and, let's see, three passes I guess. I wonder if I could drive it there with the thermostat out. Does the engine warm up enough to run well that way in cold weather? Last week it was in the area of -35 here at night and -15 during the day. It was much warmer on the front range, but that would still be a really cold trip! I can probably scare up a trailer, or else I can unhook the rear driveline and pull it on a dolly right? Thanks for all the great input. grossgary, the guy that did the clutch is pretty good. I know he used a very good clutch, and I think he would have done everything necessary. but, I will have whoever works on it take a look. My last clutch went 175,000, 78,000 of those were put on by me. I'm not very hard on clutches. Thanks again, this really helps us make a good decision. And for the record, I have no doubt about the superiority of the 2.2 as far as being a less problematic engine, but I have really enjoyed driving this car and I think with the new design HG, it will be more reliable.

Sorry grossgary, I must have misquoted you. In one of my recent marathon reads of the HG threads, I ran across that statement by someone in a semi-heated exchange where you guys were trying to convince someone that they did indeed probably have an HG problem. My apologies. More importantly, thanks for the perspective. The shop I am thinking about is a dealer in Grand Junction, CO. I have never been fond of dealers, but my experience with this particular shop, and that of several other people I know, has been very good. However, another nice benefit of going with CCR is the 3 year warranty, although, 36,000 miles is probably more like 1.5 years - no guarantees with the dealer I don't think. I found out that a friend of mine that runs a towing business has to take one of his trucks over to Grand Junction soon for some work, so I think I have a free ride over there - another plus in that column. Good points. I do want/need to keep it awhile. If money was no issue I would be looking for an 06 OBW. I think the difference between reworking this engine, and a CCR boils down to $600-$700. Maybe it would be worth a compression test on this engine to see how things are looking. Please permit me a couple more questions: What do you all think about the clutch situation - only 20,000 on it, should I replace it while the engine is out? As for the timing parts, I emphasized to the dealership that his is the second round on this car. They said they would inspect the tensioner and pulleys, but seldom replace them. Does that sound right, or should I just insist on new parts? Can you tell how worn a tensioner is by feeling or listening to it? One last thing. I have a mechanic friend, not a Subaru guy, that is quite frustrated with me because I am convinced this car has a bad HG. He is used to seeing Toyotas with blown HG's. Every time he starts them they shoot a gysere out of the radiator, they blow hoses etc., lots of pressure all the time. Mine will run for weeks without even overheating, then one day heat up. Yesterday is actually the very first time since this started, that the car pushed any coolant out into the reservoir, the first time it ever blew cold air through the heater, and the first time it didn't return to a normal temp after being shut off for just a few minutes. Somedays, I can run it for an hour on the highway no problem, other days it will heat up after 20 minutes. Why the intermittent nature of the Subaru headgasket problem? Thanks again to all.

No, actually cash is a big issue, but so is the logistical problem of where to do the repair. We have tended to keep our cars a long time over the years, so I need to do a good enough job to get another, well, 100K would be nice. I think the valve work is a given. I guess the question is whether the CCR engine with many more new components is a better deal for the extra money and time investment. Thanks

197,000 almost trouble free miles, but now my time has come to join the ranks of the 2.5 HG victims. My biggest regret is that I was unable to break grossgary's statement that he has NEVER seen a 2.5 get past 200,000 without blowing the HG - so close to victory. The problem has developed so subtly that, although I knew the odds, I still tried another thermostat and a new radiator. In fact even now, this car will run around close to home just fine, and will not overheat unless I take it out on the highway and run above 65 for a while. Anyway, sorry for the length of this but I would like some opinions on where to go from here. The car is in great shape. No problems that I know of with the tranny (manual) or driveline. It has new rear axles, and a clutch with only 20,000 miles on it. Brand new radiator - that's a bonus. It was within a short time of needing a full timing belt/water pump/valve adjustment job. i would guess it will need new front axles at some point, was re-booted at 113,000, no noise but they can't go forever. I know the general thought is go with a 2.2, I am considering it, but still leaning toward the 2.5. Emily says that CCR has not had any blown HG's on 2.5's with the new gaskets. I don't have the tools or skills to do this myself, or a really good Subaru shop in town, so my options right now are: Take the car to a dealership that I have worked with and do trust. They are about 3 hours away from here. They will do the Hg job, Timing belt/WP and etc. job, for about $2000. That includes machining the head surfaces, but no valve work. Add $500 if I want the heads gone through completely. I am assuming at 200K it would at least need some exhaust valves. So around $2500. Or trailer the car 4.5 hours to Denver and have CCR install one of their rebuilds for about $3100 assuming I get my core charge back. A 2.2 is about $600 less, but I have to say that, for me, this has been a good engine and I really like the power, especially living at 8000' and driving passes a lot. Any thoughts?

I have what I think is a related question. I am coming up on my second timing belt interval on my 97 OBW 2.5. I'm at 197K right now, the last one was actually done at 113,000. The right side timing cover is showing a small amount of oil that I assume is coming from the cam seals on that side. Will this oil leak affect the timing belt's life span? Should I do the job earlier? This is exactly what happened last time. The seals started to leak before the belt interval.