subsince77

Thanks everyone. They are going to clear a hole in thier garage so we don't have to lay in the snow, and we will do the 3x drain and fill.

Thx Dave, wix is readily available here, and money is an issue for them. I can order the Idenitsu for my car through the local carquest, but we'll just get them some Dex. Too bad they waited until its 12 degrees outside, but at least it's not -12.

I am going to help some friends change the transmission fluid and filter on their 98 OBW. It has 167k on it, and is developing a pretty significant hesitation and bump going from 1st to 2nd. I think they got it at just over 100K, had the transmission serviced, and never looked at it again. I haven't been under it yet, but from what I can gather searching this board, the 98 may or may not have an external filter? Is that right? If it does not, do I need to drop a pan to replace some kind of internal filter, or will a straight 3X drain and fill through the drain plug do the trick? Also, should they just use a dextron III, or would there be any advantage to using the new ATF-HP? Thanks.

I agree completely with your post. I didn't really mean it like that, I was just saying that since traction control presumably is aimed at times when conditions are wet or snowy, and since many, many, Subaru lovers live in snow country, and since these cars have always packed up snow in the wheels and wheel wells to a big degree, I would think they would try to make them resistant to failing under those conditions. They probably did. It may still happen. I get it. However, I am an old guy, well, not that old, but I have been driving on snow and ice for, let's see, almost 40 years with no accidents. But I learned the old way. I still pump my brakes. I keep the car in control. I'm not used to all the sensors and computer driven stuff, so I'm trying to learn about it, understand it, and use it. I'm not complaining about it even if this happens once in a while when the wheels pack up. Just so I know it's probably no big deal, I'll just drive and see what happens. Appreciate the input.

Nipper, not sure what you mean by use the TC to overdrive the car. If I understand what you are getting at, I drive this car in difficult conditions the same way I drove the 97. Actually, I have always felt that the AWD and extra traction and stability of the Subaru can easily lull people into going too fast in slick conditions. I try to consciously drive a bit below what it feels like the car can do. People seem to forget that you still have to stop once in a while, and that particular road is not one where you want to suddenly get pulled off the side by some unexpected deep snow. It's a long way down. So far, I can't even tell what the TC is doing if anything. As soon as we get some serious snow down here, I want to get in a safe place and experiment with it on and off. I just wanted to be sure I don't need to have something repaired while I still have a few weeks of warranty left. River dude- the light never blinked. Just came on steady, and did not shut off until after a restart. The book says that means the system was deactivated. Having a wheel sensor covered in snow is certainly a possibility, but why make a system for snow that can't function in snow? Again, the good news is the car doesn't seem to need it to drive just fine.

There was a lot built up on the wheel wells that night, but I usually have snow in there all winter long. This year has been mild so far, but most years it is just too cold to get the stuff off, sometimes for weeks at a time. I took it up the same road today. Not as much fresh snow, but still a good workout and build up in the wells. No problems. Just have to see what it does throughout the winter I guess. The good news is that I am really liking the automatic in the snow. I didn't know if I would miss the manual more in the winter, but with the Sportshift and all, it seems to be working very well.

Ok, no thoughts from this board. That always am,Ed me nervous. The dealer suggested that maybe a wheel sensor got overloaded with snow and shut the system off. I doubt it, but if so, the whole thing is a bad joke since these are pretty normal conditions for many Outback owners. The car handled just fine, so I'm not worried about it. The dealer also said that if it was a "hard fault" the light would not have gone off again. I will just have to go back up there and find some more deep snow to see if it happens again. Beautiful mountain driving and a day of XC skiing in jaw-dropping scenery is a hardship, but such is the life of a test dummy.

I was driving the other night down a mountain road just before dark. It was snowing moderately, and the road had about 8 inches of fresh snow on it. In places there were tracks and ruts, so it wasn't difficult driving, but there was enough going on to keep you on your toes, and the car was getting pushed around just a little. At one point I noticed that the traction control off light was lit on the dash. I assumed that I had inadvertently turned the TC off when turning on the wiper heater. I pressed the button to turn the Traction Control back on, but the light stayed on. I tried it several times and could not get the light to go off. Once I got down to a safer location, I pulled over, shut the car off, started it again, and the light went out. From then on I could turn the T Control on and off as usual. The car handled fine, so I don't know if the traction control was actually off or not. I don't know for sure if I accidentally turned it off at first or not. i only know that the light was on and could not be shut off. Is there any reason that the car would turn the traction control off on its own? Are there any conditions that could cause that? I still have a couple thousand miles of warranty left, so I am wondering if I should have it looked at. The nearest dealer is 2.5 hours away, and I haven't had any issues with handling. BTW, this is an 09 OBW AT. Talked to the dealer today, they hadn't heard of this problem, so couldn't give any possible solutions. The light has stayed off all day, even through some donuts in a snowy parking lot. Any thoughts?

Well, I poked my head under the car today with this whole thing in mind. I was surprised at just how low that pan is, and imagining that valve sticking out and down at an angle. Looks like you would lose at least an inch of clearance. There is no way I'm putting that thing on there! Too bad I already ordered one. If I never left the pavement I probably would do it.

Thanks for the input. It's true that unscrewing an oil plug is a simple process. That's my main argument against the valve. Why? Simpler, sure, a little cleaner, sure, but I haven't really had any problems with any of that for the last 40 years, so... I'm not even sure why I want the thing. As to a "shield" that I keep reading references to, unless you install something, there is nothing on the bottom of this car that one rock wouldn't tear off. So it comes down to use of the car for me. We are putting 20,000 miles per year on it, so I do a lot of oil changes, several laying in the snow. Anything that makes it faster is good. I have not, in the 10 years I had my 97 OB, or in the one year I have had this one, scraped the bottom on anything. Maybe the nose right under the bumper once or twice on the 97, but never the tranny or pan. I pretty much know where the bottom of the car is, and how to thread a rock through to the side of important parts - but it could happen. Most of the time, we know where we are going in advance, and if there is any doubt, we take the lifted truck. The 77 Subaru was much more suited to off-road than an Outback. Anyway, right there is the crux. It could happen, and the result would be nasty. Even if you knew you had damaged the valve, and shut the car off before all the oil came out, there you are "in the middle of nowhere." I don't think I will know if I would be comfortable with it, until I see one on the car and how it sits in relation to the rest of the undercarriage. I am ordering one, and next oil change I'll stick it on there and look at it for a while. Then go with my gut. I would still love to hear from someone that has one, and drives some light off-road.

I like the looks of this thing, but like so many others, am nervous about anything that might make a catastrophic oil dump possible. I have searched and read, and am on the verge of ordering one. Here are my questions for those of you that use them. I have an 09 outback, does anyone know if the nipple style will actually hang below the car enough to be vulnerable? I keep reading that people wouldn't use it "off road." Well, how much off road? We live in western Colorado. We drive in deep snow, and on two track roads from time to time. I definitely don't spend all my time on pavement. But, for any serious 4wd road, I take the Tacoma. A stock OBW is not a 4wd vehicle in my opinion, but we use it to get to some trailheads. Should this thing only be used in city/ highway applications? What do you think? Maybe I just need to install one and see what it looks like.

thanks for the reply. It got me thinking. I don't think this is a bearing or bushing on the alternator, PS pump, AC pump etc. But, the belts are original, and although I have given them a push whenever I'm changing the oil, I hadn't really taken a good look at them. I dismissed belts because this just doesn't sound like belt squeal. But, I checked them this morning, and although they were by no means loose, they could probably be a little tighter. I tend to be very careful about over tightening belts. Anyway, I tightened them just a bit, and although the noise did happen again (it was 7 degrees this morning) it was MUCH reduced. When I got home tonight, I gave the AC pump belt another nudge tighter we'll see if that's it. That would be a nice cheap easy fix.

We have had about 6 or 7 mornings now that we're 10 degrees or below. On each of them, I am getting a noise for a second or less right as the engine catches on startup. It is not a belt squeal. Not that high pitched. More like pulling the trigger on a drill or circular saw. Quickly increasing pitch, then it it is gone. The only thing I can think of is that the starter is hanging for a second. The thing is that the car only has 32k on it. I have never had a starter problem on a Subaru much shy of 200k. I took it to a dealer since I still have a few miles of warranty left. They said they see this happen with older batteries when the cold cranking amps are getting low. That doesn't make any sense to me, but that's what they said. They checked the battery and said it was fine. They also "checked the starter", I think they just put juice to it and made sure it worked. It wasn't cold where the dealership is, so there was no way to duplicate the issue. I hate to just throw a starter at it, but I also don't want to be buying a flywheel. This car has so many things on it that I'm not used to. Is there something else that could explain this noise? Again, only at startup, and only below 10 degrees.

My Subaru wheels have a plastic cover, my steel winter wheels do not. I must have driven the 97 like this for years and never noticed. I think it's just newer car syndrom. A lot of our roads get treated with mag-chloride. It's very hard on aluminum wheels, so most people run their snow tires on steel.

Probably a silly question, but is there any problem with having the ends of the axles out in the slop all winter? Are there any little hub caps that you can get to cover them when you have winter wheels on?

My book says 74 to 89 foot pounds. I put them at 82.

Thanks all. Yes, the tool that came with the car did work. It's just one of those little angle type things. Since I do my own wheels, and change them twice a year, and im very careful about how tight the nuts are, it will probably be fine. I have just had times in the past with other cars that a tool like that was inadequate to remove the lug nuts. I finally just started carrying bigger lug wrenches in all my cars. Maybe I don't need one in this case.

I just put my winter wheels and tires on the 09 Outback. In doing so I discovered that my old 4 way lug wrench won't go over the nuts. It's too thick to slide into the wheel. Nice. That's what I've been carrying all summer. I guess I will just pick up a breaker bar and a deep well socket. Does anyone know the size of the lug nuts? I used a 3/4 tonight, so I assume they are 19mm. Correct?

So after all that, I read the fine print on my antifreeze tester. It has a prestone logo on it, but it says ethylene glycol right on it. Hmmm. Been using it for years with the green stuff. Maybe they all test the same.

That's what I get for writing while still on my first cup of coffee. Yes, it holds 6.7 qts. The bottle of concentrate says to add .8 qts of concentrate to a 4 qt. System, and 1.4 qts to a 7 qt. system. Anyway. I added 1 qt. I'm not really concerned about having screwed anything up, just wondering about testers. Maybe Shawn will find something out. Otherwise, I'll ask around at a couple of parts stores.

Uh, I'm not mixing different kinds of anti-freeze. The car comes with a 50/50 mix of the blue super coolant. Subaru says that goes to -34, the same as a 50/50 mix of regular anti-freeze. We frequently get colder than that, so everyone here runs about 60% to 65%. To do that, you buy the blue super coolant concentrate in quart bottles, and up your mix. I was told by the dealer to use 1 qt., but the dealer lives where it never gets cold, and doesn't know much about it. There is a chart on the back of the concentrate that tells you how to lower the freeze point to -62 - quite a bit more than I need. It says to add .8 qts to a 4 gallon system, 1.4 qts to a 7 gallon system. According to my book, my system takes 6.7 gallons. The dealer said to add one quart, so I did. I'm sure I'm covered for cold, I hope it still cools in the summer running up passes at 90 degrees. I would just like to be able to test it. So my question is, will the tester I have work. I guess I will see if a parts store has a tester for this kind of AF. No one seems to know much about it here where I live.

I just added some concentrate to lower the freeze point of the antifreeze in the 09 Outback. This is the blue stuff. Will my old antifreeze tester work with this stuff? It is just a regular old suck up a bulb full and read the numbers type tester. Thanks

Sure would be nice to have some control over that. I don't use cruise on the passes of course, but just about anywhere around here you are running through some hills, some steep. That thing wil run itself up to 6000 rpm in an instant when it could have done fine in the next gear. Wakes you right up! It does it pretty smoothly though - no banging into gear. In my opinion, it needs another gear. 4 just spreads them out oo much. I know there is a newer one now, but that's 10 years away for me.

No real need for this post at this point, but I sold my car when my CCR engine had 44k on it. Running very strong, no noise, no problems. I takes to the new owner a while back and it's still running great. I had a misfire problem before and after the engine change, so it wasn't their fault, but they did hours of extra work later trying to help me find it. I had a very good experience with them all the way around.

I just got a notice from Subaru about a software update for the ecu on my 09 Outback. The car runs fine, and it is a major trip to get to a dealer to have it done. Does anyone have experience with these things? Do they usually go well, or am I in danger of having something that works fine now screwed up if I let them do it? Just looking for opinions. Some computer updates are great, others not so much, so.....