subsince77

Great, this helps a lot everybody. i will pass it along.

Sorry guys, I just keep thinking of questions. Let's assume it was overheated or whatever, and the heads are now seeping. What is the most likely thing to happen next? Will it follow the typical phase one course of overheating as the gaskets deteriorate? Or should we be looking for a mixing of oil and coolant? Might it be reasonable to redo the gasket job with proper milling of the heads, given that the car seems to have good compression etc.? I am thinking maybe that would be a good thing for him to do is have a good compression check for starters to see what condition the engine is in. I only say it is good because it runs well and doesn't misfire or throw any codes. I know some will say it is old and forget it. But they can afford some repairs if the car is worth it, but not a new car. The rest of it is in really good shape, and my 97 is still serving me well.

Is there a way to tell if the heads were milled at this point?

Thanks Gary, and everyone, the guy who owns the car doesn't know where to look for the head gasket seam. I do, but haven't had the chance yet, and right now it's snowing. i will check it out. He did say though, that he has not noticed any loss of fluid. I would not be surprised to find out that the car was overheated by the kid who owned it before, or that the shop in Denver did a less than stellar job. Too bad. I don't know what that will mean in the long run. I had just never heard of an external leak on these engines, but I wondered right away about the heads being machined or not. If they were warped enough to leak, wouldn't there be some other signs of problems? Anyway, you answered my questions about the bolts. I thought that sounded fishy, but I just didn't know. I'll post when I can get a look at the car. Thanks

My details are a little spotty here, because this car belongs to a friend, but I wanted to see what you guys thought about this. My friend bought the car with a little less than 100K on it last summer. The PO had receipts showing that the HG's were done at about 80k. I told my buddy to call the shop where the work was done (in Denver) to make sure they used Subaru head gaskets etc. They said that, yes, they always use only genuine Subaru parts. The car had some oil leaks, and minor stuff, but was really good shape and ran strong. He got it cheap, and set about having the various minor repairs done. He has now been told by two mechanics that he is going to need to do the HG's within 15 to 20k. At first I kept telling him that they were just saying that because they don't know that the gaskets were already done. Turns out that the second mechanic, who I know somewhat, and pretty much trust, said that the head gaskets on this car (I don't know if this is one side or both) are currently "seeping" antifreeze EXTERNALLY. My friend says there has been no noticeable loss of fluid (and no overheating, oil mixing etc.). The mechanic looked at the receipts and noticed that there were no new head bolts specified. He says that you have to replace the head bolts or the heads won't torque right. So my first question is, is that right? While he had the car in the shop, he replaced the head bolts and retorqued the heads. He still says they were not done right and will fail within 20k. So, I know you can't tell much without seeing the car, but I have never even heard of an external leak on a phase 1 - have you? If the car actually has the new style gaskets, and has been retorqued, what are the chances that it would fail? I just don't know what to think about this. Any thoughts?

Just drove the car home in a snow storm. It feels much better - normal. So I guess that was the deal. Thanks for the help as always.

Thanks all. The tie rods are done, the car is at the alignment shop, and I'll let you know how it feels when it comes out. I certainly hope the diagnosis was right - should be. The guy has done his fair share, and he was pretty certain about what was wrong. I have never worked on a front end in all my years, so I'm unfamiliar with it all. i should probably learn. All I know is that I was starting to feel a little play, which didn't surprise me. Our roads are not the smoothest either. I just didn't want my wife in any danger on the 300+ miles of no cell service road between here and her folks house in New Mexico. Thanks

Thanks for the replies guys - i know nothing about front ends. It does seem to be, I think it I was told the inner tie rod end. I just figured if we were doing one, and paying for an alignment, I might as well do both ends on the drivers side, My question was should i do the other side of the car, even though it has no play. This had to be a quick decision because I had to order the parts and try to get all of this done today (one shop for the tie rod, one shop for the alignment) so my wife can take the car on the road next week. I decided to just do the drivers side, inner and outer, and the boot(s). There wasn't any discernible play anywhere else. If I can get it back today, I can get the snow tires on tomorrow and be good to go. Thanks

My OBW has 225k on it, and I just started to notice a little bit of play in the steering. Actually, it doesn't feel like play, and the car goes very straight down the road. But i can feel small bumps or ripples in the road pushing ever so slightly on the wheel as I go down the road. Anyway, I jacked it up and the left front has a tiny bit of play when pushing at 3 and 9 o'clock on the wheel. I am told it is either the inner or outer tie rod end. The other side is solid as a rock. Should I just do the inner and outer on the one side, or do all of it at once. I am having this done by a shop if that matters. Thanks

I hope we eventually find out what happened here. As a very satisfied CCR engine owner, I hope this whole thing works out. Tough deal for all parties involved.

Yeah, again, mine does not shudder. Maybe chug and spit and tell me not to lug it, but not shudder. Do what Nipper said.

I have the same car. I don't think it shudders, but I generally shift it in normal conditions (flat dry roads) at around 3500 to 4000. It seems like that's where it likes to run. Sometimes I shift at 3000 maybe, but running anything under 2000, or 2200 feels like it is lugging to me. On long climbs the car feels very good at 4000 to 4500. On a fast acceleration onto a freeway I will often go to 4500 or 5000. Horizontally opposed engines do like to spin. My mother used to have a 96 (I think, maybe older) sedan with a 2.2 and an automatic. Left to itself, it would always keep the car around 2000 rpm or a little higher. it made it feel like a complete dog. I would just shift in manually, then it would run uphill like any other Subaru I had ever driven. This is all just my $.02.

Where will you put the radiator? I had a 71 Superbeetle from 71 (really became mine in 75) to about 86. Blue convertible - nice car. My first horizontally opposed engine.

Thanks, I'll pass that along.

Wow! I'm surprised. Lots of Front Rangers on this forum, but they must all be from Denver and North. Ok. Thanks anyway.

I have a friend with a 97 OBW 2.5 AT. He bought it recently with the understanding that the timing belt and all front seals were done about 25K miles ago. (Head gaskets were done, so no comments necessary about that) He even called the shop in Denver where the work was done prior to the purchase, and they said they "always do the complete job" when doing a timing belt. Well, it turns out that the belt and water pump were all that were done. No seals, no tensioners (!), no oil pump reseal, nada. Now his front seals are leaking, and it looks like the rear seal might be leaking too. At least he is losing oil at the back of the engine too. Not a lot of volume, but a lot of smoke. I told him that he will need a full timing belt kit with tensioners this time as well as the seals. I'm thinking that the water pump should go a while since it was replaced, He wants to get it fixed, and will be in Colorado Springs for a few days week after next. Can anyone recommend a reliable indy shop over there that he could call. Thanks

Where are those plugs? This may be one thing I have not done. NEVERMIND, I FOUND THE THREAD.

Personally or in my engine? Yes. Seafoamed through the intake, in the gas tank, and sprinkled on the hood. None helped the misfire, but my car runs great. Seriously that was one of the first things I did on the original engine.

I have about a 75 page post on here about my 97's #3 and 4 misfire problem. I have replaced nearly every electrical component in the ignition system, swapped injectors, even put in a new ecu and a new intake with a new wiring harness on it. I have never been able to track it down, and have stopped trying. My cel is on basically all the time. The car runs fine and never ever actually misfires that I can feel. This problem even followed me through an engine swap. That does not mean yours is not fixable however. Start with the right NGK plugs and subaru wires if you haven't already. Yup, mist water in the engine compartment, you might just find something. I think my giant thread was called mysterious misfire something or other. It could give you lots of information because everyone on here really beat their brains out trying to find it. Search for misfire and you will find it. Good luck.

:popcorn:

NGK wires were recommended to me be the guys at CCR, and I really like them. I have been very careful about plug wires in this car, and you have to be, but it's hard to imagine that since the manufacturer specs an NGK plug, that the wires that NGK makes for their plugs wouldn't work. Anyway, they have been fine for me.

Hi all, I was visiting my brother in Montana a couple of weeks ago, and I drove his 93 legacy wagon (2.2 5mt) from Roberts to Bozeman and back. I noticed that his car is only turning about 3200 rpm at 80 mph. My 97 OBW 2.5, 5mt, turns 3500 at about 75 or a little less. Does the Legacy have a different transmission, or rear end, or both? It was kind of nice.

Thanks for the info. I also thought it was odd that only one wheel seems to be a problem, and it is the same one that had the only torn boot on the car. Not that the boot had anything to do with it, just seemed like the front right quarter was where the most problems were. Everything else looks good though I guess. I believe they found a used hub someplace that's being shipped. I offered to see if someone here had one, but they had already ordered it. Too bad, they were looking forward to driving their "new" Outback over to a marathon this weekend. Oh well, by the middle of next week they should be up and running.

I posted elsewhere that I have been helping a friend who just bought a 98 OBW. It has had some rough use at the hands of a college kid who is now graduating. Mom and Dad bought him a brand new 4x4 truck, so he sold the Outback pretty cheap. We did a tune up, fluids etc, it already had both headgaskets and T-belt, and it also had the right front inner DOJ boot torn. My friend elected to just replace both front axles with MWE remans. So far so good. But today, the mechanic who is installing the axles found that the right front wheel bearing was "essentially non-existent." He was going to just replace it, but found that the hub was ruined too. I didn't see any of this, but I trust his judgment. My friend had been going to drive the car over several mountain passes tonight to the Front Range, so I am glad the problem was discovered. My question is, I drove this car, as did this mechanic. There was some minor scraping noise just for a second when you would just first start out forward, but nothing that would have indicated a completely ruined bearing. Has anyone ever seen a really bad bearing not making a bunch of noise? And, that car has 111,000 on it. Mine has 217,000 on all original wheel bearings. Mine isn't making any noise at all, but now I'm a little nervous. Don't they usually let you know when they are going out? Is there some more serious action I should take on my car besides just turning the wheels and listening, pushing etc? It just got me thinking.

OK, "freewheeling" was the way the manual described it, but after doing more research, the 3.4 V6 is definitely non-interference and uses a t-belt, the 2.7 4cyl. is interference and uses a chain. I read, but don't know for sure, that Toyota never made an interference engine with a belt, they use chains on those. Enough on the Toyotas, I'm just expecting to love this truck in combination with our Outback. I helped my friend do the tune up on his new-to-him 98 OBW, auto, yesterday. He bought it last week for $2050, which is cheap around here. It came from a graduating college kid, so it has had a bit of rough use, but looks pretty good. The head gaskets, T-belt, water pump, seals etc. were all done at 87,000 with Subaru parts. It now has 111,000 on it. It had the original plug wires, changed those with new Subaru, it had the wrong NGK plugs in it, put in the right ones. We did filters (the car was warm and we did get a good squirt out of the fuel filter) oil, new oil pressure sending unit (it was leaking) checked the PCV valve, cleaned battery posts, and another guy did a trany service on it. It has one front inner boot torn, so he ordered two remanned axles from MWE that should be here today. We still have to service the rear dif with some 75/90 synthetic (I couldn't get the filler plug out laying in my driveway), and he is going to need new rear struts sometime this summer. The car seems to run great, and other than what is mentioned above, including a few college kid dings, it seems really solid. For western Colorado, I think he got a great deal. Their other car is a beat up 88 Wagon that has seen better days, so this will be their new road car.