subsince77

PM Sent.

Where would you go to find this bundled pair of - must be cam - sensors? Just call a Subaru dealer? I don't have one here so I usually buy parts on line. Do you have any other information on this recall because it probably happened before I owned the car.

NEW INFORMATION!! Cam and crank sensors were swapped from my old engine by CCR. Which is more likely the problem? Do I test something or just start throwing parts at it?

I've had this problem through, oh, at least 4 sets of plugs and three sets of wires. So, is the current thought to go ahead and replace some sensors as per McDaves last post? I wonder if I should think about just having the valves set. I can't do that myself, so it is a bit expensive on this car. The people in town hate doing it so they charge big. These valves were presumably set right at CCR 10,000 miles ago, and the sensors are probably not the same ones as the old engine with the same problem - I need to verify that. it may require a phone call, but I'll email one more time. See, that's what hangs me up about this is that the problem is identical to before the engine swap. It did seem to get a little more frequent during the warm part of summer (that's about two weeks in Gunnison). Now it happens about every two weeks or so.

Oh yeah, I was just kidding. I wrote that first sentence before I read the rest of the posts. The rest is an edit - Guys, Guys, I was only kidding. No reason to get anyone's hackles up. I could never tape over the light, first because it would mask a different and potentially serious problem, but also because It would drive me nuts not knowing if it was on. Sorry - only kidding. That is why I put a big grin at the end of that post. I have no oil leaks anywhere around the plugs. Again, new heads, new valve cover gaskets, maybe new plug seals, but anyway, no oil in or around the plugs. No oily plug wires, no leaks anywhere - never uses oil. But good thought. I have had the plugs in and out enough I would have noticed. At some point, if everyone just gets tired of this, we can drop the whole thing and I'll just reset the cel once in a while. It will bug me, but we have gone through a lot of possibilities, No one could say we didn't try and try hard.

I don't know anything about this, but I wondered why it didn't throw a code.

I live in a town of 6000. What inspection?

Anyplace to go from here? How would I check those sensors, or would it be worth replacing them? i still think a small piece of black electrical tape strategically placed over the cel might be the ultimate answer.

Well, I did the EGR test during our week of silence. I disconnected and plugged the EGR. It took a couple of days and a few trips up the valley to get a CEL, but it finally came on in the predictable fashion. Checked the codes - same as always 0303, 0304. No difference, no other codes. Still don't know about the sensors. Emily never responded, which is a little odd. they usually get right back to me. I will try emailing CCR again, but looking at the quote from the FAQ page, I would think they gave me new cam and crank sensors, wouldn't you? Glad to have the site running - hate the new colors though.

No I didn't. I will email CCR right now. This is from their FAQ page, but I'll email and ask. What do I have to swap over from my old engine? Your intake manifold, hoses, front pulley, flywheel, motor mounts, alternator, power steering and any other accessory items. Older engines would include carburetor, distributor. You do NOT have to swap water pump, oil pump, timing components, oil pan or valve covers: these are all included with your engine.

OK, I'm back after a very insane few weeks. I decided to give the vacuum gauge another shot, since I never did have a CEL while it was hooked up. I put it on two days ago, and today we drove up to Crested Butte. On the way back, as predicted, as soon as we started downhill and let off the gas a bit, the good ol' CEL started to flash. I was watching the vacuum before, during, and after the incident. Not a wiggle. I was happy that I have now eliminated the valves, but pretty much back to square one as to what the real problem is. My next step is to plug up the egr line, and get a code to read. I should be able to start on that tomorrow afternoon. I have to drive another vehicle to pull a boat tomorrow and the next day, but I'll be in the Subie some too. Oh, my wife watched closely on her trip in the Sub last week. She said that it was very consistent that upon crossing passes (10 or 15 minutes of power up one side, then let off to descend) the light would flash after the crest of the pass. Also, coming through a town after motoring down the highway at 70, same thing. This seems to be very consistent. Power followed by letting up = CEL.

Just a quick update. I have had no time to work on the car since last report. All is well, but we have been way too busy. We had an out of town trip to help ailing relatives planned for this week so I was going to work with both the vacuum gauge and the EGR to try to get some more information to you guys. But, because we have fallen so far behind, my wife took the car on the road trip, and I am staying home to catch up on things. The cel had never come back on until just yesterday, right after a fill up - it does not always do that, and I have already replaced the gas cap. I didn't have time to check it, so I told her, "I got the cel on for you, now just ignore it." I hope to get back on this right after labor day. Sorry to ruin our momentum.

So, how long would be safe? I understand you to say, unhook, plug the hose, drive as normal until the light comes on, then read and report. How much driving around without the EGR is OK? Sorry for the "experiment" terminology. I meant Diagnostic Procedure.

Thanks everyone, sorry for the silence. We have suddenly entered into an unexpected, extremely busy couple of weeks. Extended family health issues, a death in a family very close to us, and some planned special events at work. We were supposed to be leaving for Albuquerque this morning. I had thought it worth leaving the vacuum gauge connected because there is no doubt that somewhere on the road the light will come on, and probably a fairly short distance out of town. Now that trip has been moved to next week. I probably will not have time to take the car for any longer drives between now and then with everything we have going on right now. It may be a few days before I can continue all of this, but I am not dropping it. Now for specifics. On a CCR rebuild, my understanding is that they transfer the intake manifold, injector rails, all the externals like started, alternator etc. I would guess pulleys, I had them put on new belts. But as for sensors, I don't know. Emily, if you're following this, maybe you could chime in there. As to whether I've noticed anything unusual while watching the V gauge, I was never sure what I was supposed to see. It idles at about 15 or 16 when warm. On a straight run at 65 or so it will hold perfectly steady at around 10 to 12 (depending on up valley or down - there is no real level here). On a long steep hill when I am pushing it it will drop way down to under 5, then recover instantly with the slightest decrease in pedal pressure. On a long downhill or fast decel, it goes up to about 20. It does all of that seemingly without any variation, so although it is moving around a lot it seems very predictable. It is nearly impossible to find a stretch of road around here where you can just hold the gas perfectly steady for very long. Too many hills and curves. The EGR problem description above certainly fits the symptoms. Just from engine compartment memory, I'm sure this car has an EGR sitting right in the location described. I can check the hose pretty easily. In fact, would hooking the vacuum gauge up to it and seeing if the vacuum is steady help? Otherwise, I can just plug it and run it. I just filled it with regular, so it would be a while before I could change the gas. One note there, remember my elevation. Even Subaru does not say i need premium at 8000'. I have used premium for 6 moths at a time, just to see if there was any difference in this problem, milage, power, anything - there was none. Just thought I'd head that one off. I understand why McDave was suggesting it for this experiment, I am just addressing an inevitable suggestion that regular gas is causing the misfire in general. i don't think so. Sorry this is os long. I'll get on this asap. if you don't hear from me for a few days, I'll be back.

I had the same thought about whether the connection of the gauge could have changed something. Only two things to report. First, I drove for about 30 minutes on the highway, nothing, then came into town and parked. Drove away after about 10 minutes, nothing. Had to go through the one slightly congested area in downtown where there happened to be several tourists and a couple of bicycles crossing the street at the same time. I took my eyes off for half a minute, looked back down and the light was on - I MISSED IT! Didn't someone say a watched pot... Since then unable to duplicate problem, then had to drive our pickup for the last two days. So, back at it tomorrow.

Now, as long as i never need my windshield wipers...

You guys are geniuses. It turns out that merely hooking up a vacuum gauge cures the whole misfire problem instantly. I can't get this thing to misfire for nothin'! I'll keep trying. Tomorrow has to be the day.

It was pretty much cold too, had been sitting for 2.5 hours after running 15 minute, after sitting all day. I'll get some more accurate readings tomorrow. But, yeah, my house is at 8050'.

Ok, got it. Idles at just a hair under 15, drops a little when you push the gas, then recovers. Increases a bit when you let off then recovers. Hangs right at 15 when holding the throttle steady. I have it hooked up and mounted on edge under the wiper. It seems pretty solid. I think it will ride there on the highway. So, tomorrow when I get time I'll run up the valley and see if I can get it to misfire. MisFire Test # 100094586799847403284895090 is under way.

Man, you would really think that I could have thought of that little solution on my own. My current excuse is 8 hours without food - missed lunch. Now I'm fed and well. OK, yes there are actually three connections right behind the coil, I tried the middle one, but it was a ported one. Nothing at idle, vacuum when I revved it. I'll try a couple until I find one. More later. Thanks for the patience.

Ok, I picked up the gauge. I need a little clarification on hooking it up. It has one tee, and one cone shaped stick-it-in-the-end-of-a-hose type fitting. Since I am going to drive I obviously need to use the tee. Do you actually slice a hose, insert the tee, and leave it in there after the job is done? If so, I will need to get a plug for it before I do this. With just a quick look around, I didn't see anyplace where I could replace some kind of connector with the tee, so that leaves me thinking of cutting a hose - hate to do that. I will look at my manual to try to see which hose would be a good one to use, but if anyone has a specific suggestion for the right vacuum, that would be great.

Apparently you use a vacuum gauge to tune player pianos, who knew? I assume I will need to pick up a longer hose, and that there is a way to work it under the hood so the hose isn't pinched (I guess I could sawzall a window in the hood and leave it up). I haven't looked at any of that yet. I did see several places to connect to on the right side of the intake manifold when I was doing the injectors. The gauge should be here this morning. I even hit it on a one day 30% off tool sale at NAPA.

The gauge from my friend was actually not right. long story - he uses it to tune pianos. I ordered one today, it should be in tomorrow. Getting time to hook it up and know what it's telling me - another story. But soon!

You were going really good there for a minute though. If I wasn't so stubborn, I prefer to think of it as determined, to figure this thing out, I would just drop it. I don't think the car ever actually misses, the brain just thinks it does.

Yes I am currently running the new ECU, and yes this problem predated the new engine. I was very surprised when the CEL came on about an hour into my drive home from Denver and CCR. I stopped, called them, they invited me to bring it back down, but all of us agreed at that time that the problem was likely in either the ignition parts or injectors that moved from the old to the new engine. Right after that is when the information came that sometimes the neutral switch will cause this, so I replaced that. Then I replaced plugs and wires a few times, then the ECM, and now onto the injector phase of the story. The fact that the problem seems to be exactly the same on both engines is why I have never really suspected the valves. I did suspect them on my old 196000 mile engine, and expected the problem to go away with the new engine. But here we are. Today's experience is another good example of there being no good example of when this happens. I drove into and around town with a few starts and stops - say 25 minutes of driving - no cel. The drove on the highway to Crested Butte, probably a 45 minute trip today with 10 minutes idling at a construction zone - no cel. Parked for almost 2 hours of mountainbiking. Started to drive home. CEl came on on flat smooth road at about 55 mph. Steady driving, not hilly, my wife was driving but I don't think we were even decelerating, although it is possible that the light started on a slight downhill with light or no accelerator. She didn't know I was wanting to keep track of exactly when it comes on, so she wasn't sure on that.