outback_97

Cool, so you bought the Outback eh? IDK, I have that much clearance under the lowest point of my car... you can go a little bigger with tires without cutting or smashing things around but not much bigger. Based on what I've read here, if there's an East Coast mudrat... definitely don't give them any money. Steve

If you read through the comments below the video (most are pretty lame), someone explained that the guy in the video says they do have the same tires. Any Swedish speakers here to verify that? Steve

Sorry if this has been posted before, I've never seen it here and I searched for it too. Found it interesting. http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/06/13/video-volvo-vs-subaru-awd/ Video shows a second gen Outback and a Volvo XC70 wagon driving up a muddy hill, and pulling a small trailer up a hill. Guess which one makes it I don't have speakers on this computer and I don't understand Swedish anyway, but supposedly the tires are the same on both cars. Steve

This might do it, not sure about how 04 differs from 02/03 though: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/mods/ Steve

FWIW on my '97 I went from 205/70/15 to 205/75/15 AT tire... only a small increase (about +.5" sidewall, plus a few more mm of thicker tread), and when I'm turning and the suspension gets compressed (like through a dip or pothole) while braking there is slight rubbing. So, the point is, you can't go much bigger if you want to be able to turn the wheels and actually drive the car, tires will rub. You can fill up the well a little more or get a knobbier treaded tire but I wouldn't think you could go more than a few percent bigger, I doubt the 05+ models differ too much from first gens in this regard. Unless you want to start doing things like cutting the fenders and bashing things in with a BFH, then you'd have more room. In theory my speedometer should read a bit low... but in reality it's more accurate now, according to the roadside "Your Speed" type things I've driven past. It's dead on now. Speedos often read a little high by default, so by increasing the circumference of my tires I've corrected that. A great tire calculator I like to use is found here: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html Steve

I'd use Dex III and do a drain, refill, short drive at least 2x to insure you get most of the old fluid out. It's so easy to do, don't even have to jack the car up. My $.02. Steve

I don't believe the springs have a negative effect on MPG around town, not that I've noticed anyway. They may at higher speeds, but I doubt it's more than say -2 MPG. Given my low highway travel miles, in a year that's probably $30 in higher fuel costs. My AT tires probably affect it more... but they're bigger than stock so you have to adjust it back up... due for new plugs and wires so it might bump up a bit when those get put in... argh too many variables. For where it can go and what it costs, my car gets pretty good mileage relative to what else is available. If it costs me an extra few bucks a month in fuel to have beefier tires and suspension I'm willing to deal with that. Steve

Martin: Thanks, yes it was a great trip. Vehicles bend easier than slickrock, that's for sure! It's not a forgiving place. I'm with you, not too interested in thrashing a vehicle when I'm hundreds of miles from home and it's my daily driver I rely on to get to work. That being said, it is pretty cool to have a car that can go where most cars fear to tread. And I have nothing negative to report about the spring install, it has been great so far. A little more peace of mind on the rough roads and still maintains great handling. Have a great camping trip, sounds like fun! Steve edit: woo-hoo, 500th post!

Matt's right, there's usually a couple of threaded holes you can use. 8mm bolt, about 2 inches long I believe. Here's a link: http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87 It's for upgrading the brakes on an RS, but most Subies are set up similarly. They're like Legos, the parts are interchangeable. Steve

schlit: Monument Valley, eh? Did you drive the loop road through the valley? Beautiful! http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/monument_valley/mv.html The Monument Valley trip was in November, I remember saying when we were there that the summer would be miserably hot. We lucked out on the weather for our backpacking trip to Coyote. 70's for highs. Subies love road trips, your poor Forester was probably jealous of the Honda when you returned. SQ93: Most any 2wd vehicle could do all but the last couple of miles of that trip. And there's another trailhead one could park at, it just means a couple mile hike in the deep sand of the road, which isn't tons of fun. Or, waiting for a ride from someone, which is unlikely and could be a very long wait. Some people have driven that road with a 2wd vehicle... I've seen them at the trailhead. But I wouldn't recommend it or do it myself. If you go, you should know... this is a very different experience from a National Park. Expect no services, no food, no water, no fuel, no cell phone, no assistance or intervention from people in uniforms and Smokey the Bear hats. No paved roads once you leave the highway. No toilets for the most part... there is one in the section of canyon we camped in, maybe a 90 minute walk from our campsite (one way). It's the most scenic toilet I've ever had the pleasure of using though... no stall or walls, just 360* view of the big world. One must be pretty self sufficient here. It's great at fnlyfnd and SoobSkier, that's funny! Steve

Thanks, glad you like the photos, we had a great time! landozion: I know you're (partly) kidding... but this area was "discovered" long before my post. Is that a bad thing? Yes and no. Visitation there may already be exceeding the capacity of the canyon to handle us humans. We saw evidence of other visitors that need to improve their low impact camping skills... e.g. scraps of toilet paper not packed out, etc. No question that places can be loved to death. But, how are people going to be passionate about protecting an area if they have never visited it? It's amazing to read about the "near misses" and projects that have been seriously considered in this area that would have completely changed or ruined it. It's a tough balance between many people fighting for what the "best use" of our land is. I think the pendulum has been swinging in the wrong direction lately in our Western states. But hiding the beauty of these areas probably won't help correct that. I think we need to get more people to see what's out there that's worth protecting. By the way, to anyone reading this, the snow in Utah is terrible, the lift lines are tremendously long and slow moving, and Colorado is a much better place to ski Steve

If that's the original that's pretty amazing, congrats! Mine lasted eight years, I was pretty pleased with that. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=26228 We have a good mix of hot and cold here... it's supposed to be 97 degrees today, d'oh! Too hot IMO. Steve

Hey USMB, I put together a little writeup of our Memorial Day weekend trip to Southern UT. I have posted a couple of these photos in the Offroad forum where relevant but the trip itself was more about backpacking and driving scenic roads than any offroading just for the sake of offroading, so I'm posting this here. We spent three days backpacking in Coyote Gulch, which is a superb canyon in the Grand-Staircase Escalante National Monument. This part of the US is one of the most remote and was one of the last to be mapped in the lower 48 states. Thankfully much of it hasn't been changed in recorded history, although Lake Powell would be a glaring exception to that Anyway, our lil' Outback wagon was the perfect vehicle for this trip. It handles great on the fun twisty roads, cruises the Interstate smoothly, and has enough rough-road prowess to deliver us to the trailhead and have fun doing it. All this while slurping less fuel than most any SUV that could have accomplished this trip. We drove several hundred miles and enjoyed every bit of it. Here's a photo from the lovely Hwy 12, below you'll find a link to the writeup. http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/coyote_gulch/cg.html Thanks for checking it out! The USMB rocks Steve

Glenn: Yeah, it does look similar, but this is on Fortymile Ridge Road off the Hole in the Rock Road southeast of Escalante. We backpacked in Coyote Gulch if you're familiar with that. Not the ends of the earth but it feels like you can see it from there! I'm putting together some photos of the trip but that'll be it's own post, don't wanna hijack. To answer No Stuck's question earlier which I overlooked, I wouldn't want much wider tires because 1) there's not much room for them and 2) the car spends far more time in snow and slush than in sand. I have Firestone Destination A/T's and am pretty pleased with how they've done so far, they're a compromise because the car is driven around town mostly, but takes us in everything from snow to gravel and sand when we can get away from the city. So they're fine for the 99% and worked well enough in this case... airing them down did help. Another related topic, in your similar post in the general forum the subject of airing down the tires came up. To air them back up I can highly recommend a Masterflow MF-1050 compressor... used it on this trip for the first time and I must say it kicks butt over the puny cigarette lighter powered 12v compressors I've tried in the past. Sooooo much better. So that's my $.02 on that topic. Steve

The Outback would be a better choice for long items, I wouldn't say it "dwarfs" the Forester though... they're both relatively small vehicles. But, the Legacy platform is longer as stated previously. And I think the OB has grown a whopping 1.5 inches or so in three generations; the new ones don't really have much more interior space. The second gen's ('00 to '04) have the widest cargo area between the "wheel wells" IIRC. I've had 8' lumber inside my 97 wagon resting on the center console... and 10' pieces of molding that went from the passenger footwell to the back window. You *probably* can get an 8.5' object in there with the front seat folded, maybe folded back + headrest removed rather than forward. I once moved a grandfather clock in mine, but that was under 7'. How wide are windsurf boards? I'd take your largest piece of gear and just throw it in to the car you're looking at, see if it fits. Good luck, they're great cars! Steve

I'm in the process of doing a little writeup of our recent trip to Southern UT, so I have a few photos handy. In the desert here the sand can be very fine, soft and deep. My 97 did great on this 4wd road last weekend: How soft and deep is that sand (it's hard to tell from that photo)? As we crested one of the hills, we saw an Xterra heading the other direction so I pulled off to the side as best I could, since he was going to have to go up the hill. As he approached us he started getting stuck. It took him several tries of killing the engine and driving a bit before he could get up the hill. So I'm not sure 5-spd is an advantage in sand (ours is the 4eat and I put it in "2" for this section). I have the Scorpion springs and some AT tires. For the trip out we aired down to 20 psi and that made it easier than when I came into the trailhead at 35 psi. Momentum is very important too, 205 tires aren't very wide for the weight of these cars. But we still made it fine both ways, there was another first gen Outback at the trailhead too. Steve

I just put Scorpion springs and KYB GR2's in my 97. For what you want to do, I'd highly recommend the GR2's. If you want to lift the car an inch or two, the Scorpions will do that well. Here's my method of handling the top nut, as I lacked the "fancy" tools and have just very basic stuff. I took a piece of rubber from a mountain bike inner tube, wrapped it around the strut shaft and clamped onto it with a vise grip pliers. This holds the strut shaft from turning while you tighten or loosen the top nut. Worked great, kinda like a strap wrench (which probably would also work). One could also use a socket (wrapped in rubber) held by the vise grip pliers and the allen tool goes through the hole in the socket. Be sure to put some penetrating oil on the nuts that are now ten years old and probably rusty. The job is quite easy now that I've done it once, compressing the springs remains the biggest pain but with air tools and a spring compressor (free rental) it's not too bad. I found a local guy via nasioc that helped me do mine, he showed me the ropes and now I can do each corner in under an hour. Previously I had only done simple things like fluid changes and some interior electrical work, so I'm no skilled mechanic. Steve

I should have been more clear: I was not aware of Class II hitches for a 1st gen Outback that don't require drilling. The install PDF for the Draw-Tite hitch does mention drilling: http://www.draw-tite.com/fitguides/pdf/N36234.pdf But, the Reese one that Andyjo mentioned might fit the bill. Their web site is http://www.reeseprod.com/ , NOT http://www.reese-hitches.com, that one is a dealer of Reese, and other products. Steve

Very nice find! If anyone is searching and looking for 02 / 03 / 04 / WRX / Impreza speaker install directions, they can be found here: http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1520 Alternate link: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/mods/index.html Steve

Subaru doesn't make hitches, so "OEM" is probably a similar unit to the one linked above. And it will most likely require drilling. I actually have a Class II Drawtite hitch for my 97 OBW sitting around, just haven't installed it yet. Steve

Here's a few pix of the car, before and after. Left Side, before: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/nlift_ls.jpg Left Side, after: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/lift_ls.jpg Right Rear/Side, before: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/nlift_rr.jpg Right Rear/Side, after: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/lift_rr.jpg Comparison of the OEM vs. King Springs: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/springs.jpg I tried to take the pix from the same angles, but they're not quite exactly the same. Also different time of day, but you get the idea. The difference in the car is subtle, but I like it Steve

Martinjmpr: This thread shows more detail about the setup I chose (thanks YetiDon for making it): http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49336 I first read about this setup online a few years back when someone was selling their OB with these struts and springs. Here's a dealer for the springs: http://www.renickmotorsports.com/oscommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=664&products_id=1220 Note there are a few models available. I paid quite a bit less because I bought the springs from a member who didn't need them anymore. I got struts from http://www.tirerack.com (very highly recommended vendor) at around $90 ea fronts and $70 ea rears. Also I got four Ingalls camber adjustment bolts for around $10 each although I'm not convinced that was necessary, others have reported they didn't need those bolts. I found another Subaru enthusiast online who was willing to do the job for about 1/3 of what I was getting quoted for labor. Of course I worked with him rather than just dropping the car off and leaving. It was great because I learned how to do it and saved money too. I have 205/75/15 AT tires (Firestone) as mentioned above, they are pretty meaty tires and I like them so far. My mileage hasn't changed much with those, highway may be down slightly. I don't know if the springs affect mileage, they shouldn't around town but maybe they will on the highway if the car is less aerodynamic when slightly lifted. Can't imagine it'd be too much of an effect though. I really like the way it's set up now, looking forward to some trips off the beaten path! Steve

Link to muddy pic as promised: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/muddy.jpg We had fun exploring Nine Mile Canyon in Utah; more info here: http://www.utah.com/playgrounds/nine_mile.htm http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week740/cover.html http://www.so-utah.com/price/ninemile/homepage.html Steve

You could buy a six pack of jackstands for $70, but that wouldn't even pay the copay on an ER visit I'm glad the cinder blocks held this time. But, the car looks great, I like it! Steve

I wouldn't think the tool carrying or having all four tires overinflated temporarily would cause this, but I'm no mechanic. If it makes you feel any better about it, my 97 has a really rough time figuring out what gear to be in and getting there for the first half mile or so in the mornings. Once it warms up it's fine, albeit Subaru's don't exactly have the smoothest feeling auto tranny, that's for sure. I haven't had a tranny flush, just drain and refills at 90K and 120K miles. Regular ATF. Steve