outback_97

From what I could figure out, the only differences in the OB Sport's "Heavy Duty Raised Suspension" from the TS's suspension are: the slightly larger wheels and tires, and taller springs. That's it. The struts are the same part number IIRC. And I think everything else is the same too. He can run slightly larger tires, but I don't know if it'd gain too much clearance that way. We have WRX wheels / tires on our TS, and maybe could go up to 205/60/16, not sure. There doesn't seem to be a lot of extra room IMO... not sure how much he'd gain with tires alone :-\ Steve

This is my daily driver, primarily transporting me around suburbia between work and home, with occasional mountain and desert trips when I'm fortunate enough to have time for them. So, it hasn't yet left a paved road since I installed the new setup. But, be assured that it will take us on camping and touring trips this summer. Dust is much easier to find than mud around these parts, and when desert dirt roads get muddy, sometimes you're better off avoiding them altogether... mud here is not like mud in the East. I do have some good muddy pix of her from about a year ago... like a wave of muddy water over the entire hood and up the windshield, that hole was deeper than we thought I'll see if I can dig one of those up. No side pix yet but I need to take some, I took one "before" and want to take an "after" from the same perspective, just haven't had a chance yet. I'd say it sits 2" taller or so. Subtle but noticeable. The 205/75/15 AT tires I have look like a better fit now, they looked almost too big before. The ride is very good, comfortable, slightly firmer than stock I'd say... but it's hard to judge considering I went from 120K mile worn struts to brand new ones. I like it very much, wish I had done this a long time ago but I was waiting for a good deal on the springs and some $ in the pocket. The setup cost me <$800, well worth it in my opinion as I needed new struts anyway. In the process I learned a great deal about my car and how the suspension works. fnlyfnd: I think what you're seeing is the end link of the sway bar? Right next to the right rear wheel? Pretty sure that's it, there's nothing hanging down in the front. Probably has around 9" or so of clearance under the y-pipes I'd guess. Steve

No, not 1/4" tread depth, 1/4" circumference. Big difference there. Steve EDIT: Some info here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=18

Last week with the help of an acquaintance I installed Scorpion springs and KYB GR2 struts in my 97 OBW, and just wanted to post my impressions thus far. ! Steve

Update: My car is no longer borked I think that it would have damaged something had I continued to drive it incorrectly installed. The upper spring mount on one side was a little teeny bit tweaked... I used my precision machinists 24 oz framing hammer to solve that. But now, it tracks straight... the steering wheel is correctly aligned... it doesn't make unhappy noises when turning around... doesn't pull to either side after sharp turns... all is well! Thanks USMB! Steve

You guys rock On my lunch break I took the front right one out and got it reassembled correctly... took me about an hour, not bad for such a rookie. Helps to have done it four times two days ago. Oh, and air tools >> socket wrenches for the spring compressors Indeed it seems to make much more sense now, things turn freely, and I think my car will be much happier. Spacer = taper on the top as you guys confirmed. I wish I had been more assertive and a little less trusting when I was working with the guy this weekend and assuming he was doing it right. Oh well, that's how we learn. I don't think I did any serious damage to the components. I am reinstalling the OEM top cam bolt (#26 above) in the top spot and putting an Ingalls cam bolt in the bottom setting for additional camber adjustment to compensate for my Scorpion springs (2" taller). Hopefully the alignment shop will be able to get things set up well with that. When 5:00 rolls around I'll do the other side, I hope it goes as smoothly. I have keys to one of our company trucks if I screw anything up and can't drive my car home. Finagling the strut assembly in and out of the wheel well is a pain with only two hands, that's the only tricky part really. Steve

This is kinda long. This weekend I replaced my OB's struts and springs with an enthusiastic but somewhat green mechanic... and I know about 10% of what he does, so you can see where this is going. Note the correct order when reassembling the struts is parts 20, 19, 18 as shown in the diagram. It seems we put them on 19, 20, 18 (19 and 20 switched). I can see the spacer at the top of the strut shaft as it enters the upper spring seat. My mechanic acquaintance (I just met the kid the day we did this) swears that was the order they were in when we took it apart. I think what happened is there was a slight amount of tension still in the spring when he took the nut off the end of the strut, everything popped off and the parts got scrambled around. In any event, have I already done damage to the upper spring seat, strut, or strut mount (or anything else) by driving it like this? It's been driven around 30 miles in the current state. I'm going to try to get them back in the right order ASAP, then I really need any alignment. In summary: 1) Can anyone verify the diagram above is indeed correct and I do need to take the thing back apart and reassemble? And the spacer goes in tapered side up correct? 2) What damage could be done by swapping parts 19 and 20? 3) Should I be allowed near a wrench and a Subaru again Thanks USMB! Steve

This weekend I'm installing (with help) a set of KYB GR2's and Scorpion springs, in my 97 Leg OBW. I have these torque specs from my Haynes manual, can anyone verify that they are correct? Front suspension: Strut / coil spring assembly Damper rod to mount nut ... 37 to 50 ft-lbs Strut to steering knuckle bolts/nuts ... 98 to 119 ft-lbs Strut upper mounting bolts ... 120 to 192 in-lbs Rear suspension: Strut / coil spring assembly Damper rod to mount nut ... 37 to 50 ft-lbs Strut to steering knuckle bolts/nuts ... 98 to 119 ft-lbs Strut upper mounting bolts ... 120 to 228 in-lbs Note the "in-lbs" on the third measurement in each case. Any other specs I need to follow? Thanks! Steve

George: I don't have any tire recommendations, but wanted to point out a couple of things. 1) For future reference (too late to do anything about it now) Subaru recommends replacing all four tires at once; having two pairs of mismatched-wear tires could potentially cause problems with your differentials. 2) Stock size on your OB should be 205/70/15. If you want to go thinner you're looking for 195 width, not 215. Steve

JEGIII: I posted to the other similar thread in the New Gen forum... since then I found one of the things I was referring to, the AA lift in a DARPA Challenge Subaru: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=41605&page=2&highlight=DARPA It's post #19 in this thread. Steve

IIRC this was used on a 1st gen Outback that was entered into the DARPA Challenge. I tried googling for more info but haven't found much yet, mostly just about the electronics on the car, not mechanical stuff. Steve

Well, ours is an auto... and I think Subie autos tend to do as well as 5-speeds on mileage, sometimes even better. But being the base model Impreza with the same engine as your 2000 GT, it's undoubtedly hauling less around. Maybe the bugeyes are more aerodynamic . Not sure about the gearing differences. Oh, and the car only has 25K miles on it, it's just a pup. This car has done 30+ MPG before, numerous times, nearly always on back highways at 60 mph or so. It really likes that speed for good mileage. The speed is a big factor... anything over 60-65 and it starts to drop fast. The tailwind on the return trip was big... it was really blowing... and cruise control helps for sure. Around town it gets an unimpressive 20-22, but no complaints as we didn't expect more than that. Pleasantly surprised with the hwy mileage though. Steve

http://www.cars101.com is a good place to see differences in models. Spend some time there and you'll know more about what you're buying than 90% of the sales staff at any Subaru dealership. And I don't even mean a *lot* of time. Which one do you want, the mid sized car or little car? Legacies are the mid sized car. Outbacks (Legacy Outbacks) are the mid sized car with a small amount of lift and "raised suspension", gaining you some ground clearance. Imprezas are the little car. "Outback Sports" are Imprezas with very slightly taller springs and a two tone paint job. There is very little difference between Imprezas and "Outback Sports" as far as the suspension is concerned, it's really just a trim package. Did that help? Clear as mud, right? Steve

Hope we're not getting too far off Gnuman's original post... Couldn't find the MSDS for 44K either. Called a distributor and requested one, they're faxing it to me but not until later today. BUT... as I alluded to before (probably not strongly enough though), the MSDS is only part of the story. Manufacturers put only what is required by law to be on there (usually) and leave out important proprietary bits. Active ingredients that actually do the magic stuff may only represent 2% of the formula in total but can have a big influence on the effect of the product. That being said, it's clear from the Berryman vs. Seafoam data that they work differently. Read this thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002944;p=0 and the post about 1/3 of the way down, for a very well written response from someone who claims to be an employee of BG Products, discussing what I mention in the previous paragraph of my post here. Sorry Gnuman if we've gone astray from your post Steve

Carl: I think the Seafoam link would be this one (although they're almost the same): http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf Berryman components (if I'm reading the listing right): 7% Glycol Ether EB (good degreasing solvent, used in a lot of cleaners) 23% Acetone (very good solvent, very volatile) ? % Isopropyl Alcohol (fuel dryer, main ing. in rubbing alcohol) ? % VM&P Naptha (often used by painters for thinning) 20% Methanol (fuel dryer, again very volatile and good solvent) 5% MEK (similar to acetone slightly less volatile) 17% Toluene (very good solvent and octane booster) It's a blend of some pretty aggressive and effective solvents, pretty volatile and flammable. Seafoam: 40-60% Pale Oil (high boiling point thin oil, good solvency and lubrication?) 25-35% Naptha (could be VM&P or other petro solvent) 10-20% IPA (fuel dryer and solvent) Much less volatile, more thin oil than solvent. So, they're different but probably do some of the same things. Either of these could have some things that aren't listed on the MSDS but it wouldn't be much, maybe some detergents? Steve (Chemist, not that that means I know what any of this stuff does to engines exactly)

Nice! I like that. Free samples to first five? How did you get the 29" tires to fit? Does the 4" lift itself allow that, or is it trimming / BFH? I have 205/75/15 AT's on mine (currently stock, soon adding 2" taller springs) and those *just barely* fit, slightly rubbing when the wheel is turned and going thru dips. And that's about a 27" tire. Steve

In our 2003 TS automatic, mostly back highways between 55-65 mph with some freeway at 75-80 and some in town as well. The AC was running most of the time, as was the cruise control. Oh, and a very stiff tail wind for 300 of those miles didn't hurt! Steve

Thanks for the info in this thread, I'm getting the parts to do exactly the same thing to my suspension, can't wait. Sounds like I might not need those cam bolts after all. Definitely post some pics, looking forward to seeing it! Steve

Sounds like maybe I should get a set of these just to be safe. OTOH YetiDon has the same type of vehicle as I do and didn't use them... did you check the alignment YetiDon? Is is ok? The person I'm buying the springs from received the check yesterday, so my springs should be shipping very soon. Steve

What about KYB GR2 struts? They're supposed to be stiffer than the OEM but not too harsh, sounds like that's what you're looking for. I'm planning on buying some very soon to go with my new Scorpion lift springs. They're around $350 for a set of four delivered, at least where I've been shopping (http://www.tirerack.com). There may be other places to purchase these but I've had good luck with tirerack in the past. Steve

On my 97 OBW I'm replacing OEM springs / struts with Scorpion lift springs (2" lift) and KYB GR2 struts. Will I need to get something like this: http://tinyurl.com/zq772 in order to get the car properly aligned afterwards? I guess I'm wondering if adding the slightly taller / stiffer springs and the stiffer struts makes it necessary to modify anything else for proper alignment. My definition of proper alignment = the car handles normally and doesn't chew through tires rapidly. If I do need something like these bolts it would make the most sense to order it with the struts. Thanks in advance for any advice! Steve

I'd keep it and drive it now that you've done that much to it, but that's just my $.02. My front wheel bearings needed work too, other than that I've had very few problems with my 97. OTOH, if you do want to sell, you'll have no trouble selling it here in SLC. Easiest to sell in the winter though as that's when they really shine. Subarus keep their value here and are always in demand. Post it on craigslist, there's always subies on there and they don't seem to get reposted very many times. Oh, just noticed a 96 2.5 for sale there... maybe that is yours? In that case, guess you know about craigslist already. There's also a Rocky Mountain forum on http://www.nasioc.com, very active Utah members there. Steve

This is the kind of page I've been looking for: http://www.parksoffroad.com/miscinstalls/inflatortest/inflatormain.htm They compare about a dozen tire inflators pretty objectively. Very wide range of results shown here, and very wide range of prices. Steve

Thanks for all the advice, I still haven't seen anything that looks better than the one I posted in the link above though. I just need to find something like that. There's a ten page thread on a Toyota forum about the one I'm trying to find: http://tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=223602#post223602 Tank: will only fill a couple of tires based on what I've read, maybe three or four since mine are not that large, but of course it'll only do that once until you refill it. This is quoted from an off road equipment site: "A 5-gallon air tank pressurized to 125 p.s.i. will air up two (2) 33X12.5" truck tires from 10 to 20 p.s.i" I found other references to similar numbers as well. A/C compressor: You guys are talking about using the belt-driven one on the car, is that right? No way I'm giving up my a/c for this. Utah = very warm and this is my daily driven commuter vehicle. Or did I misunderstand about the method? Hodaka: Yes, that's the kind of thing I want, but (if I can believe specs I read) the one I posted flows 72 liters / minute, which is around 2.5 cfm. The one you're talking about is 1.2 cfm. The other models are better but quickly climb in price. I have a little cigarette lighter jobby and it takes a long time to fill the tires and sounds like it's going to rattle apart. Maybe there's better cheapo ones but I just wanted to see if there was some middle ground unit that won't break the bank but would do better. The one I posted (which is turning out to be hard to find) and the one Hodaka posted are the kind of thing I'm looking for. Thanks for the feedback. Steve

eponodyne: I'm sure that is a good quality one but googling ARB 12v compressor gets prices from $200 - $300. I called a couple Checker stores and they don't have the one I showed above, Pep Boys' web site has it for $70. Steve