lewisd Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hello wise ones, I've searched and read many timing belt forums along with the articles and still have a question. I still have the old TB on and counted teeth and it looks like I have 47 on Passenger side and 44 on drivers side. According to everyone else and the manual/articles, this is wrong and should be 44/40.5. I have the timing marks all up and lined up. Maybe the tensioner (by the way seems to be from a 2.5 on my 2.2). Maybe because it's CA emission type? My TB cover also is only two sections. The small section on the drivers side and one long piece from there over. Anyways with the teeth count, I'm wondering if I should go with what manual and everyone else says or transfer teeth count. the tensioner looks like it is leaking so maybe it is off count? maybe that is what was causing my engine stumbling while driving steady or accelerating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Don't worry about the tooth count. As long as the marks are lined up when you release the pin on the tensioner then you are good. Once you have the belt on, rotate the engine over by hand to insure there is no internal contact. But if the marks are lined up you should be fine. None of us really bother with the tooth count. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahoe Subaru Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm just wrapping up my timing belt change. I've got 47 and 43.5 teeth between the marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I use binder clips to hold the timing belt to the sprockets during installation. It's worked really well for me. It's been a while since I've done it, but I think I just binder clipped the belt to each sprocket so the lines matched, finagled it so the mark on the crank pulley lined up and then installed the final pulley. Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisd Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thanks for the feedback. My legacy is a 99 (purchased summer of 99) in Norfolk, VA and somehow found out later after several part differences that it is a CA emission model 2.2l. Go figure how a west coast car ended up on east coast. example I have to get a 2000 air filter for it to fit. Anyways upon inspection it definately looks like both cams have slight oil seepage (black seals) and also the oil pump region. I'll be busy with that this evening after work. gotta replace the rubber transmission coolant lines off the radiator as well. darned clamps were so rusted I just cut the line. figured I'll replace them anyways. Annapolis Subaru quoted those two little rubber sections at about $70!! I'll be getting them elsewhere. Thanks for the large paper clip idea on holding belt to pulleys. I think I'm setting a record for how long it takes to do timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Don't worry about the tooth count. As long as the marks are lined up when you release the pin on the tensioner then you are good. GD Well, as long as you got the slack out of the lower part of the belt before releasing the pin. If you leave slack down there, then you will end up with the Drivers side cam retarded when the tensioner pulls up the slack. But like you said, one rotation around to double check all the marks are straight up when done will tell you if everything is right. IMO, the difference in tooth count #'s, tensioner types, and cover types, is that you have a Phase II 2.2, essentially identical to the Phase II 2.5, but with smaller displacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 If your traveling takes you near the Bay Bridge I could meet you to loan out a seal puller... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisd Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 that would be terrific 89ru. My work takes me across it everyday. work at the old naval research base across from the academy (where the exchange is). I'll pm you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisd Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Okay, water pump is back in, cam seals are in, oil pump is off and checked the backing screws, tight as can be. looked like grey sealant was used before by manufacturer. oil pump hasn't been touched that I'm aware of can't find the TB change paperwork back when. I have the anaerobic sealant but am wondering if the activator is required. I called permatex but got their mailbox after waiting forever. After removing old rtv, I've cleaned both surfaces with brake cleaner and will go over again with rubbing alchohol. so this sealant, a thin bead or light smear around the pump? I searched but does anyone know of any example pictures of that? This is it's second TB change. the first was around 76,000 miles by mechanic. I now have 224,000 on it. I consider myself lucky. the tensioner appears to be leaking. the old belt has light glazing but not cracked or frayed. the replacement belt (mitsuboshi) had to be sent back. close inspection showed a tooth with the fiberglass strand exposed and one broken sticking up. I'm waiting on replacement. after I get the belt and all back on can I tighten the cam bolts by using the flywheel lock method while belt is on everything? I did that when loosening everything with the belt on. Edited December 30, 2009 by lewisd forgot something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 That should work, but to avoid stretching, use the old belt to hold the cams while you tighten the bolts. Then reset and put the new belt on. A light smear of sealer means you put a dab on your finger and run it around the sealing surface until it's coated. Remove any blobs or drips on the inside. I usually make it thin enough to see through it. This (which just so happens to be a subaru oil pump ) is too much IMO. http://beergarage.com/imgs/Suby/OPump/14.jpg Crazy what you can find with google! http://beergarage.com/SubyOPump.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisd Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 that's funny, I looked at his other pictures and it did show sealant squished out the side. but great pics none the less. Thanks Fairtax4me! putting oil pump back on tonight. I saw beer garages pic of how he held the cam sprocket for tightning. not sure about that. I saw he installed the crank oil seal onto the oil pump before putting oil pump back on. I would think it would be hard to slide over the crankshaft then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisd Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 I'm still closing things up and have a question. what torque setting to go with with the cam sprocket and crank/pulley bolt? Haynes manual says 54 ft/lbs for cam bolts and 100 ft/lbs for crank/pulley bolt. I've read anywhere between 100 and 140 recommended but one says no more than 125. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Lots of opinions on the crank bolt, I use 100-110 with no oil or loctite, hasn't slipped for me. I have a cheap torque wrench so who knows what its putting out Nasty probs if that bolt loosens up, horror stories! If you have corrosion on the bolt clean it up and use some lube. For me the bolt usually comes out clean...rust on the sprocket - crank mating surface though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisd Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 All done. wrapped everything up, and nervously started it up. it seems to be running fine. guess I'm just paranoid now and keep looking for leaks or the temp rising cause of a coolant bubble (I've read to much that I've become a worry wort!) Lessons learned: I won't remove radiator again, just the electric fans. With A/T those little tranny fluid lines were a PITA getting to the clamps and they were rusted anyway. ended up cutting and replacing. I put them on the radiator ends before reinstalling the radiator. I used a craftsman strap wrench succesfully on the cam sprocket pulleys for tightening. So far things look good. the cutting out and back on while driving seems to be gone again (for now) I want to thank everyone here for their input and help. Truly a great resource! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I'm still closing things up and have a question. what torque setting to go with with the cam sprocket and crank/pulley bolt? Haynes manual says 54 ft/lbs for cam bolts and 100 ft/lbs for crank/pulley bolt. I've read anywhere between 100 and 140 recommended but one says no more than 125. The FSM for the 96 says the crank pulley bolt should be 80 ft lbs. I think I'd put blue thread lock on that one for good measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 The FSM for the 96 says the crank pulley bolt should be 80 ft lbs. I think I'd put blue thread lock on that one for good measure. Watch out! There's a consensus here that this is way too little torque and will lead to nasty consequences. Most use at least 120 ft lbs. One of those being Emily at Crinc: she rebuilds motors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisd Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) I did 125 ft/lb with blue loctite on the crankshaft bolt. couple pictures, before, old new parts side by side, and after. Edited January 5, 2010 by lewisd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Watch out! There's a consensus here that this is way too little torque and will lead to nasty consequences. Most use at least 120 ft lbs. One of those being Emily at Crinc: she rebuilds motors... Yeah that's why I said I'd use thread lock. I've read the stories. 80 seems a little on the low side. Most other cars I've worked on 65 - 90 is the recommended spec, so it SHOULD be ok, but there is plenty of evidence to say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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