legacysubaru Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Today I'm going to replace the cam seal(s) and I do not have the factory sprocket wrench. Does anyone have any good ideas to keep the sprocket from moving. What type of tool or modified tool has anyone tried with success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 To start with to break them loose do it while the Timing belt is still on!!! Then you only have to worry about tightening. - And you may be using the old belt for that. There are several methods. If noone replies just do some searching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiekid Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Impact wrench for removal, strap wrench or old timing belt and vise grips for install. Torque to 55 ft/lbs IIRC. I use just a dab of blue loctite on all my/customers motors... just in case. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacysubaru Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 So just to fill everyone in on whats going on a 1995 2.2 legacy I purchased not long ago.... and I have questions... I have an oil leak that seems to be coming from the crank seal. Oil is burning on the exhaust. From the below you can see oil on the t-stat housing, oil pan, bottom of t-belt cover. I have the cover off and you can see some oil inside the bottom lip of the center cover piece. Also, some traces of oil on the front of the oil pump. Before jumping off the deep end let me get a things straight. I read that an old pcv can cause access pressure and make seals leak. WIth that in mind, should I stop what I'm doing put it back together and just replace the pcv valve? Or is that just a band aid on damage thats already done and may not stop the leak but just lessen it?? Also, the cam seals do not seem to be leaking at all. Should I leave them alone or go ahead and replace them as preventative maintenance. THe car is at 80,xxx miles. One last thing: When pulling the crank and cam seals is it possible to do it with a flat head or somthing like that? On my Mercedes I was able to use conventional tools when pulling the crank seal and had no problem. But I keep reading about using a special tool when doing this job on a SUbaru> Thanks and Happy holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 While it's not uncommon for cam seals to begin leaking (after all, it IS a Subaru), sounds more like your valve cover gaskets. Replace the bolt seals at the same time. Emily http://www.ccrengines.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacysubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 D side valve cover is seeping. I'll replace it too. I'm pretty sure it's the crank seal. There should not be oil inside the T belt cover. While it's not uncommon for cam seals to begin leaking (after all, it IS a Subaru), So you are basically telling me that I should replace both cam seals?? I also think my rack is leaking but thats another project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 great motor you got there. sounds like your crank seal is leaking. that's easy, just pop it out after you remove the oil pump. you'll want to reseal the oil pump, which the crank seal is seated into. you remove the oil pump, tighten the rear backing screws (locktite any that are loose), replace the crank seal, replace the oring and seal it with anaerobic sealant. it's simple. you're not supposed to but i always install the crank seal before installing the oil pump back to the engine. you're not supposed to do that but it's so much easier i don't care. as for the cam seals. if they really aren't wet at all, you can leave them. timing belt interval is 60,000 miles on this engine so you can plan on doing those next time. so you could avoid all the "harder" stuff now - not remove the cam sprockets and replace the crank seal with the oil pump out of the car. basically removing all the trickier parts of the job. personally i'd just do it all right now - replace those cam seals and the orings. but if they aren't leaking and you don't want to mess with those cam bolts, not a huge deal you can do them with the next timing belt at 60,000 miles. for the front seals and orings i use all Subaru stuff - they're a much better quality. as for the timing belt - get the ebay timing belt kits. they're awesome, onlye $80 and you get the belt and all new pulleys, great deal. it's almost impossible for your 15+ year old pulleys to be in great shape by now. if the timing belt is wet, replace it very soon as oil degrades the belt and makes them break. i've seen brand new ones only last a matter of months when soaked in oil. steering rack is leaking - those aren't that hard to replace at all actually. they fail so infrequently you should just get a used one. probably get a known good one right off aboard member here in the parts wanted forum. they fail so rarely there's hardly any demand - i didn't even bother removing it from the 96 Legacy i just sent to the junk yard a couple weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacysubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 Yeah I guess I could do the cam seals at the next interval. It's at 80k now so that would put the next t-belt replacement at 140k. Are these cam seals good for 140k? I'm sure they are the originals. Would hate to see them start leaking at like 100k. And how much harder are these cam seals to replace than the crank seal? Also, I plan on just changing the belt but still using the old idlers and tensioner. The reason being the belt was changed at 60k so I figure they should be good. I'll go ahead and check the tensioner's resistance and make sure it's within spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacysubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 (edited) n Edited December 25, 2009 by legacysubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 these old style tensioners are very reliable, it's not going to need replaced. your pulleys will be far from new condition. at the very least the toothed idler is the most common to be noisy. if the belt was replaced at 60,000 miles why would you replace the belt but not the 15+ year old pulleys? i'd do the opposite - leave the belt and replace the pulleys. they will not be smooth like a new pulley, you should feel one if you never have before. a new timing belt is worthless with bad or failed pulleys between now and 140k. depends what you think about reliability, it's not worth the couple dollars to me. non interference engine so when your pulleys/timing belt fail you won't have any damage you'll just be stranded, so that's the good news. $80 ebay kits all the way. as for the cam seals - yes they can start leaking and yes they can make 140,000 miles. this is about percentages not quantitative black and white. you got a very rough 50/50 chance of them making it 140,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacysubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 I believe the idlers and tensioner were also replaced at 60k(when the belt was replaced). I'll go ahead and replace the cam seals too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 IIR crank and cam seals from the Dealer are maybe 10 bucks each (really I think about 8 bucks). And this is a case where I always go OEM. I also like the OEM WP gasket, I just do it all - like Gary says. Infact since you have a 95 occasionally I'll use the cheap belt that comes with the internet kits. Often the kit is cheaper with the belt than buying the idlers seperate. I have a collection of the MitsubOshi belts since I'll only install them on the 95 2.2's just in case. A new Dayco is like 35.00 IIR. I just do it all, oil pump Oring, the 2 Big thin Orings, WP, the whole deal. It's not much more time at all and then it's all done. Only thing to stuill worry about is the baffle plate leak. Valve Covers are easy enough if they leak. I usually do new NGK plugs and evaluate the wires while I'm at it. If you pull the rad I just do new coolant. If you're planning on having the car a while I'd just do it all. And if you're thinking of selling it in the future most folks can't seem to quantify what major maintenance like this will cost so it's an easier sell if it's been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacysubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 IIR crank and cam seals from the Dealer are maybe 10 bucks each (really I think about 8 bucks). And this is a case where I always go OEM. I also like the OEM WP gasket, I just do it all - like Gary says. Infact since you have a 95 occasionally I'll use the cheap belt that comes with the internet kits. Often the kit is cheaper with the belt than buying the idlers seperate. I have a collection of the MitsubOshi belts since I'll only install them on the 95 2.2's just in case. A new Dayco is like 35.00 IIR. I just do it all, oil pump Oring, the 2 Big thin Orings, WP, the whole deal. It's not much more time at all and then it's all done. Only thing to stuill worry about is the baffle plate leak. Valve Covers are easy enough if they leak. I usually do new NGK plugs and evaluate the wires while I'm at it. If you pull the rad I just do new coolant. If you're planning on having the car a while I'd just do it all. And if you're thinking of selling it in the future most folks can't seem to quantify what major maintenance like this will cost so it's an easier sell if it's been done. Thanks for the good word. The left bank camshaft has an o-ring inside where it bolts to the head. I noticed some around the outside of the area. Probably from the valve cover gasket. Should I replace that o ring?. I really should have got the kit. Now that I have it apart. I have noticed the idlers and idler tensioner are far from new and should be replaced. The previous mechanic 20k miles ago did not replace them ( just the belt). ANd what do you mean by the "baffle plate leak"? The valve cover gaskets?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Search here for endwrench articles. I gotta go for the family Cmas dinner soon. There are actually 2 of those skinny Orings. The other one is more difficult for me. It's on the back side of the Pass side head at the back of the cam. The plate that it goes over is a very close machine fit. They can be a bugger to work back it - sometimes I walk it in using the 2 bolts. The Oring kit comes with 2 in the pack. For a 2.2 here is my parts list. Actually I just keep it in an old WP box - one set for 2.2 and one set for 2.5 DOHC's. It contains empty packages from the parts I used last time for the 2.2: Crank seal - OEM Cam seals OEM earlier 2.2's Oring set - OEM Oil pump Oring - OEM WP Gasket - OEM you'll need ultra grey for the oil pump, and baffle plate if you do it. NGK plugs Timing Belt (usually Dayco) Both accessory belts(Dayco). Combine this with the internet kit for all the idlers and perhaps the timing belt. I broke down and got a Lisle seal puller for maybe 20 bucks. Poke around it's been discussed here. I used to use pick's, screwdrivers, etc. As usual the correct tool is the way to go if you can. I'd hate to learn about one of those sleeve kits after knicking a cam - but I've done many without the tool. The baffle plate is the thing that leaks that couses oil to leak onto the Ypipe that most folks unfirmiliar with Suby's think is the rear main seal. It's very easy to fix - after you pull the engine or trans. Some folks install a new thermostat while they are at it. Folks recommend OEM for them as well. I haven't really had issues with aftermarket ones but they are MUCH smaller. And I've bought cars w/overheating issues that the aftermarket ones have been in backwards. I don't even know if an OEM would fit backwards. Gotta run. But seriousely there are some excellent links here to follow. I had some saved but this laptop died a few weeks ago and I hadn't saved bookmarks lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacysubaru Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 you'll need ultra grey for the oil pump Will high temp permatex work as a substitute? If not, where can I find Ultra grey and what brand is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Don't know but it'll probably work. Ultra Grey is a Permatex Product I believe. It seems to set up a bit more stoudt than a lot of silicones. No matter what you use just don't get carried away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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