505subie Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Issue seems resolved by swapping coil and ignitor. First I want to thank this board for all of the lurking I do here. I have driven mostly Subes since 1989. Wish I still had that '86 2wd hatch! Ok on to my issue. Got this car late last summer sort of, the PO had it towed to my place and asked if I wanted it, then sort of reneged then signed the title over in Nov. He had taken it to a few shops to sort a no start issue. Every time I needed to move the car it started, sometimes it needed a jump. Most times not (this was late summer). FF to now. After I got the title I decided to get it going. I thought maybe it just needed a battery. No dice. No start. Gave it a jump after running the battery down no start. Fiddled with the coil wire. Fired right up (with a jump). At this point I slapped myself on the head and simultaneously patted myself on the back for figuring out the no start issue (loose coil wire). The car sat for two more weeks while I waited for enough cash to register it. The day comes (In the meanwhile I also bought some new I pikes for it cause the tires were crap, get home to take the car to the tire shop and) NO START???. WTF So with a jump and trying to fry the starter it finally fires up. I take it to get tires and it barely starts again after sitting for about 45 minutes. Drive home and search this board. Ignoring reading codes etc. So this is way to long. I am thinking at this point cold start issue = CTS. Swap in JY CTS no help. More searching leads back to ignition codes read are 13 and 11 Crank angle sensor. Take apart top of disty and attempt to yank the crank angle sensor. Oooppps the cas seems to be attached from underneath the disty. I put it all back but blast it with some MAF cleaner first without ever hitting the optical sensor that I know of. After the disty was all buttoned up the car fired right up. Smelling victory I took it to get the emissions tested and it passed with flying colors. Drove around town to work to the kids basketball game and it started to miss around 2500 rpm and sitting at a light I watched the tach drop to about 500 the lower then it stalled. Crap! So I am cranking it and cranking it. It seems to want to fire some mild sounds of combustion and mild backfiring. No start. In the heat of desperation I get under the hood and make sure the coil wire from the disty is snug. It starts. Yayyyyyy!. No other issues that night. Drove it another thirty miles or so still has the missing issue at certain RPMs. Starts fine cold star issue appears gone. Until............. Two days ago it left me stranded. Had to have it towed home. My son's faith in my mechanical skills are in question cause we were on the way to school. Missing became an issue goosing the throttle kept it at bay. I didn't pay close enough attention. When I got the car home I read the codes IIRC it was 34 and that is not likely to cause a no start according to searches. Tonight I pulled the plugs they were all wet with fuel and appeared pretty new. I pulled the timing belt covers and timing is as should be 180 degrees out. So if you have read all of this Thank You. These are my questions. Am I on track? I have not yet checked compression but I will a week from tomorrow unless I get it earlier. Should I suspect the disty or crank angle sensor? It was firing and then went away. I will also check the grounds it could be that simple. When I checked the timing (cam orientation) I only rotated it until the dot on the passenger side and verified the drivers side was 180 out . Did I need to get TDC as well? The timing belts seemed to have more slack than normal maybe 1/8" deflection. Well If you read all of this thanks. Let the replies flow. Paul Edited February 6, 2010 by 505subie issue seems resolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 1/8" deflection on the EA82 timing belts is pretty normal. They are not hydraulically tensioned so they stretch as they age. Some people tighten them and other's do not - it does not seem to make a great deal of difference in their overall life. Either way they tend to last about 50 to 60k. As for your issue - if the plugs are wet with fuel then you have an intermittant no-spark issue I would say. Sounds like the CAS is a good place to start. I've never heard of anyone having luck cleaning them but being that the ECU threw out a code it can't hurt to swap in a good used one or one from a JY car that was obviously running (look for one that was wrecked if you can find one). The other places for failure is the ingition amplifier and the coil - the amp being located on the coil bracket itself. They can and do fail - it's not all that common but it's the most common failure in the SPFI ignition component list. Distributor's and coil's (OEM, not aftermarket) are very reliable. Also the coil bracket has to be grounded as the ignition amp requires the bracket ground to complete it's circuit. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Welcome to the forum here. I agree with GD. This does sound like a CAS problem. I think if you swap in a used disty from a salvage yard like he suggested your troubles with the car will be over, for now at least. The sensors are pretty expensive new so a used one in a disty could save you some money. The ignitor is another thing that causes trouble like GD also stated but the codes indicate the CAS sensor is the trouble. One thing that you might check before replacing the sensor while the trouble is occuring is the power to it. Make sure voltage is getting to it. I think fuse #5 supplies power to it. To verify the fuse at least, the horn should work if the fuse is good since it is on the same circuit I believe. Edited January 30, 2010 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Replace that damn loose coil wire.Ignition amp may already be damaged. Got spark now?Got codes now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 new plugs and wires, go from there. otherwise point to the ign amplifier on the coil bracket. do the wires first, since that seems to be your main problem also, make sure the green test plugs are DISCONNECTED, because this will hold the timing static and not let the timing advance if they are plugged in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 It's not the CAS if it's getting fuel. The ECU won't trigger the fuel pump relay, or fire the injector if there is no pulse from the CAS. Possibly the cap and rotor otherwise.......Ignitor or Coil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 It will still run the fuel pump on "key-on" to pressurize the fuel rail. Maybe it's fireing the injector intermittantly as well due to abnormal CAS output - thus the code. But that would tend to point toward the amp or coil. I would get a complete set used and swap things out one at a time - probably starting with the distributor just to rule out those phantom codes. Carry the other spares and your tools with you..... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
505subie Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Gentlemen: This is a good start. I will check all items suggested. Unfortunately I wont have time until about a week from now. I will make sure that I let you all know how it works out. Just a few comments and questions I did replace the plug wires and coil wire yesterday before my post. Cap and rotor look good. When I pulled the plugs they looked good as well. I have new plugs and will probably install them next weekend. Thanks again for the suggestions. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
505subie Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 So this morning I swapped the coil and ignitor from a parts car that always starts. Installed new plugs and wires and it fired right up:banana:. I need to put tags on it so cant drive it to see if the issue is totally gone. I will check codes in a bit. An accessory belt idler is frozen or the belt is too tight so back to the parts car for a bit more swapping. Just wanted to thank those who made suggestions. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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