WeezWagon Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 Hey all, I have a 1992 Loyale wagon, and its pretty much been a great car for the last 3 years I've owned it. 216k on original motor and tranny. Of course it leaks oil like a sieve. Anyway it is time to do the timing belts on it, they are quite a bit over the recommended mileage. I believe I have close to 75k on them. oops. I just cant justify taking it to a shop to get them done so I am going to attempt it myself. I have read up on this for the last few days and found some pretty good write ups with pictures and everything on the site but decided to make a post to get any last minute tips/tricks while I compile my parts. While I am doing these belts I have read that most of you guys do the water pump and reseal the oil pump, also I am wondering if anyone has a link to a cam tower o-ring tutorial, as I see that these are a pretty common repair while doing the timing belts and mine certainly need attention. I've never done a timing belt before and am a little nervous, any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 ah, memories! Yeah, I was a LOT nervous doing my first one - just take your time, and follow the directions in the write-ups you found here and you will be fine. One note is that some of the 10mm bolts that hold the covers on can be a pain in the butt to get out - the ones that go into the brass inserts on the outer edges - the insert likes to break free and spin in the plastic housing them - there really is no "good" way of getting them undone if this happens, but visegrips can be your friend here. remember - take your time! Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WASHroad Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 The hardest part for me was breaking loose the front crank pulley bolt. My manual had me pull the starter and jam the flywheel gear with something so it will not turn. I used a block of scrape alum. I had laying around. Once that puppy was loose the rest was cake. The block of alum. worked great to retorque the front crank bolt also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 get an ebay timing belt kit. for $60 or $80 you get both timing belts, all the pulleys and tensioners. it's so cheap it's silly to leave the 20 year old pulleys still on there when they are prone to failure. that's typically what i do - get it all done while the timing belt is off, but water pump, oil pump reseal, cam seals, and crank seal adds on a ton of additional time, particularly your first time around on all of that stuff. just beware of that. "cam cap orings" the cam carrier orings are actually different and far more involved to replace. thepartsbin.com sells cam seal kits which just means a seal and an oring - both come in one package. the cap that the cam seal presses into actually slides off the front of the engine after removing 2 or 3 bolts and under that is the oring - really simple. when i remove the cap I often install the seal then before reinstalling it. you're supposed to install the seal with it on the car but it's much easier to install it out of the car. use a 1" socket on the oil pump rotor to remove the outer 12mm bolt on the shaft when replacing the shaft seal. that's probably the only tip you really need, everything else is fairly straight forward. make sure you know how to line up the timing belts, the markings are 180 degrees off where on newer cars it's the opposite - they're all the same. so people mess that up often. i'd remove the radiator, it's not necessary at all but really helps to have the space particularly when you're knocking the crank seal in. frankly they're kind of annoying to get seated due to lack of space, i leave them if they're bone dry. if it's even a tiny bit wet though i replace. like he said, most of the time the hardest part is getting the timing covers off, those inserts like to break free and the bolt won't come out. many of us just leave the covers off so we don't have to deal with it. i don't run covers on any of my cars except the ones with chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeezWagon Posted May 16, 2010 Author Share Posted May 16, 2010 wow guys thanks for the reply's. I'm starting to feel a little bit better about the repair and I think I'll do it on my Saturday, get a good start and take my time, should be pretty straight forward like you all have said. Radiator is defiantly coming out. Some other questions though, my Hayes manual mentions a "drive plate stopper tool", I don't see this mentioned in the writeups I've found. Necessary? It sounds like a good idea to me. Also depending on the shape of my belt covers I may run coverless as well, this seems like a bad idea at first but seeing that almost everyone on here does it gives me some confidence. I have the kit on the way from ebay and am getting a water pump and oil pump seal kit from the local napa. Thanks again. One other thing, Gary, when you say that the marks are 180 off what do you mean? I.E. The drivers side cam alignment marks would point up while the passenger side would point down? Just a little clarification please. Thanks again for all your help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Awesome sounds like you've done some homework, that pays off well. The crank bolt pulley is 22mm and they can be VERY tight, particularly if they've never been removed or it's been awhile. it's usually close to impossible to get it off with just a socket, you'll need a long breaker bar or pipe to put over the socket handle. or an impact wrench is ideal! Drive plate stopper few folks use, it's not necessary. you don't say whether automatic or manual, the auto's are easiest. auto's have square holes every 90 degrees or so in the flexplate, just jam a nice stout screw driver or socket extension into a hole to hold the engine while removing the crank bolt. if it's a manual jam on the brakes and put it in gear to hold the engine in place. driveline and rocking tend to produce a lot of "give" and make it hard to get enough stank on it. yes 180 off, sounds like you got it. easiest way to install the tbelts is line up the middle of the ||| marks on the flywheel with the arrow in the bellhousing, and the drivers side cam timing mark, then install the drivers side cam. rotate the crank 360 degrees and line up the ||| marks again. the drivers side will now be pointed down at 6 oclock. line up the passengers side cam mark and install that belt. you're done. rotate the engine 2 or 3 times by hand to make sure you're not a tooth off. more modern Subarus you actually line up both passengers and drivers side at the same time and install the belt, so they're "in synch" so to speak. so people mess up the older ones fairly often if they're used to newer stuff. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeezWagon Posted May 16, 2010 Author Share Posted May 16, 2010 Cool thanks! I've gone from nervous to excited about this. I have an impact wrench at my disposal so I'll use that if the bolts give me any guff. Its an auto, so sounds like I'm in the clear for that as well. Thank you very much, I'm sure I'll have at least one more last minute question but I'm feeling pretty good at this point. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 oh - on the oil pump you need to hold the rotor in place so you can loosen the the oil pump shaft bolt. i think i mentioned a 1" socket - i think it needs to be like a "12 point" if that's what they're call, it's no a six point. or you can try and loosen it while the old timing belt is still holding it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Why can't the two belts be put on at the same time, with the driver cam dot up and the pass side down with the fly wheel mark lined up? what does turning the engine do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Why can't the two belts be put on at the same time, with the driver cam dot up and the pass side down with the fly wheel mark lined up? what does turning the engine do? you can, it's suggested often and many on here do it that way. turning the engine ensures you're getting it dead on since there's no alignment on the bottom. a good practice the first time around and the best "one size fits all" recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Why can't the two belts be put on at the same time, with the driver cam dot up and the pass side down with the fly wheel mark lined up? what does turning the engine do? As Gary said - by turning you are making sure you are 100% on the mark - not getting the marks lined up can throw the timing off - and even 1 tooth off can cause some serious running issues - pull your hair out, "why isnt this stupid thing running right?" kind of issues. Do yourself the favor, turn the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellets Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 The easy to get crank pulley loose is to put breaker bar with socket on and let bar handle rest against the frame then bump starter. bolt will come right off. There are timing notches on top and bottom of rear covers. at least on my ea82 88 gl there are. The timing kits from ebay are fine. I just found one for 50. Getting the springs on idlers hooked up taxed my old joints a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Search Miles fox on utube He has great vids on all this stuff. I dont know how to post a link or I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeezWagon Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Hey guys, quick question, I have pulled the belts, done the water pump and cam towers, and pulled the oil pump to reseal it. I noticed that the pully is kind of loose feeling when the pump is out of the car, like the whole shaft slides back and forth about a quarter of an inch, is this normal? It doesnt seem normal to me, and would hate to put a bad oil pump back into the car after being right here. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 good news - that is normal! i remember thinking the same thing the first time i pulled one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeezWagon Posted May 22, 2010 Author Share Posted May 22, 2010 thanks gary, i got one at the junkyard today for 25 bucks, just in case, and it does the same thing. never hurt to have a spare part laying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 yeah hold on to it, if you ever have TOD that won't go away replacing the oil pump is a good thing to try. sometimes with age the pumps are fine but they just won't hold the gasket tight enough and cause air to get sucked into the oil supply and giving you TOD. replacing the pump often fixes that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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