greenstang Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 have 2002 legacy gt 5spd. earlier in the summer it started running bad. i changed the fuel filter did not help. thought it was the fuel pump had a pressure tested and had 63psi. what is doing is when it is cold it seems to run fine as soons as it gets up to temperator is starts to miss. when it gets up to temp in 1st gear it is fine. shift to 2nd it is terrible misses bad and have to go back into 1st. the check engine light was off until i changed the plug wires did that not help. put a differant coil on it still no good. had friend come over with his scanner and it showed misfire on all 4 cyls. and idled around 600rpm. tried a differant throttle position sensor and no good in the original position. had to turn it to get the idle up to around 800rpm. when the scanner was plugged in after hitting the throttle the rpms when to 2600rpm and timing advance to 33 then fell back to around 800 but the scanner still shows 2600rpm for a little while longer the fell back and the timing same way. could the crank sensor be bad or maybe the computor.the last thing i want to do is have to take it to the stealership to get this problem taken care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySchmitty Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Also check out the coolant temp sensor....IIRC they normally fail reading as cold? Can't remember. But definitely worth a look. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Spark plugs and wires? Ignition wires on this engine should be Subaru - I've seen aftermarket wires cause your exact issues, not even drivable, even brand new right out of the box. These EJ engines are not forgiving for some reason. Also check the igniter, swap out another one, it's the black box on the rear of the engine bay around the middle, just behind the throttle body, above the trans dipstick but more middle of the engine. you can see it with the hood popped. That would affect all 4 cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 i did put new plug wires on. beldin from napa. the collant temp on the scanner looked normal. i tried the coil from another car and that did not help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 ignitor - it's not the coil pack, it's different. swap that out. how old are the plugs? by reading your post - it sounds like the check engine light came on after you installed new wires...or am i reading that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) you are correct. 95k on car and plugs are original. check engine light was off until i put the new plug wires on 2 weeks ago. that is when it started running worse. been having trouble all summer with it. autohousaz shows ngk oem for $43. http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=3k22qqmcf1apdlfq5pgt0hry&makeid=13@Subaru&modelid=399~39~87~13~~5~6@Legacy GT &year=2002&cid=14@Ignition&gid=7228@Spark Plug Wire Set Edited September 9, 2010 by greenstang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 you are correct. 95k on car and plugs are original. check engine light was off until i put the new plug wires on. that is when it started running worse. been having trouble all summer with it. autohousaz shows ngk oem for $43. Why do you not want the genuine Subaru wires which are known to work well on soobs? The aftermarket wires even NGK may be suspect. Magnecor wires seem to be the only ones I've heard are usually ok as well. The genuine wires are SOA430Q119 WIRE SET, IGNITION FOR 2000-2003 LEGACYS (non H6) and Subaru dealers who sell online will sell these for around $40 a set, so it's even a little lower price than the aftermarket options. Subaru genuine parts are not always way out there on price, they are actually often very competitive, plus they in general are good quality parts that work and fit well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 i usually try to use oem parts anymore. i just did not want to make a 35 mile trip to the subaru dealer but it looks like i will have to tomarrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) O2 sensor sounds likely. If changing plug wires made it worse then you need to change back. Worse means they are no good. Also check for vacuum leaks. Fuel pressure was 63 psi at the rail? Should be around 40-42 IIRC. I'll have to check on that but 63 sounds way too high to me. Bad FPR, or the vacuum hose to the FPR is broken/split are possibilities as well. Edited September 9, 2010 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 You don't have to make a special trip to the dealer. If you were going to order the NGK wires online, you can order Subaru parts from dealers selling online just as easily. And often it's a lower price than what the local dealer charges unless you have some connections there. Places stating 'OEM' parts are tricky, because it does not necessarily mean it is the genuine original part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 just ordered the oem wires and ngk plugs. i pulled a plug out it deffinatly needs them. should have them the beginning of next week. hopefully the wires will cure the missfire and the plugs might fix the problem i orignaly had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 put in the eom wire and new ngk plugs. started rite up ran smooth thinking it was fixed boy was i wrong. just as soon as i left the driveway i could tell it was not rite. drove around the block got it up to temp it started stumbling again. starting out on a small grade in front of the house it not want to go. got back in the driveway idle was low and not running very good. to sit there and accelerate the rpm's go up. let the clutch out put it under a load falls flat on its face and will not go. check engine lite is off now that it has oem wires on it and di not come on at ll today. usually when the o2 sensors went bad the light came on. i have access to another computer maybe i should try it. it has to be something simple i just do not know what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 I would see if the CEL/MIL illuminates after making 3-4 more 'trips'. Some codes don't throw right away, so there might be one or more codes pending that will throw if they reoccur on the next 2-4 drive cycles. Say how many miles are on her? She might need a compression test to see what's going on. Maybe the timing has jumped a tooth or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 Drop in a used ignitor - they can and do go bad resulting in misfire. Basically it sounds like either you are running lean, or you have a weak spark. Clean the MAF, and check the output of the front O2 sensor - could be reading rich and leaning out the mixture - the fact that it only happens once warm is a good clue - the O2 only starts reporting after it reaches a specific exhaust temperature. Below that the ECU runs in "open loop" mode because it has no O2 sensor with which to indicate mixture. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 it has 95k and were is the ignitor at i did not see it but i could have overlooked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 Straight back in the center of the firewall. It's the amplifier for the spark signal from the ECU. Definitely could be due for an O2 sensor at 95k. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 i was just looking at some paperwork with the car and it has 2 front o2 sensors replaced in 2005 one in feb and another front in nov. both time it was code po130. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Doesn't mean they aren't bad - in fact it makes it more suspect as it could be an inferior aftermarket part. Not only that but one wonders why it was replaced twice...... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 i looked on the firewall and did not see the ignitor. i even looked on a 2000 legacy outback at work today before it was dismantled and once the airbox was removed it did not have one either. the firewall had no moduals on it at all. can someone get a pics of what i am looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share Posted September 22, 2010 the o2 sensors were replaced under warrenty at the dealer so i assume the oem ones. as i said earlier i did not see the ignitor on the firewall. just to be curious i changed the ecu today and just as i thought it did not help. going to order o2 sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share Posted September 22, 2010 what about a crank position sensor????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Crank angle sensors fail and the engine stalls and won't start at all. They are usually intermittent. The ignitor is a small black or grey box mounted to the bracket over the pitch mount (dogbone). It's only about 2" x2" and 1/4" tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstang Posted September 29, 2010 Author Share Posted September 29, 2010 changed the cps and it did not change anything. could i possible have a bad fuel injector? a friend of mine has a f150 w/300 6cyl that had that acted the same way and he had a bad injector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 greenstang - did you ever resolve this issue and if so - how? i'm having a similar issue and curious what happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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