LocalHero Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 2000 OB LTD w/100K I had a hose break while up in the mtns about 2 months ago and it sprayed radiator fluid all over the belts. I replaced the hose and cleaned off the belts (which were nearly new) and all seemed ok except there seemed to be a slight noise associated with the power steering. Once home the noise seemed to increase and searching around I found this site: http://tinyurl.com/yel97e7 This seemed to be my situation and I did notice that I'd put pressure on the ps return tube. So I re-adjusted the shroud but didn't bleed the system hoping to avoid any real effort as I gather the air sometimes works its way out on its own. Now the ps has gotten louder and very consistently making noise. It makes noise as soon as I start turning the wheel (with the car sitting still) and gets louder as I move towards locking the wheel to either direction. I read up on how to bleed the system (I *think* I follow which lines to disconnect) and I'll do so when I get some proper replacement fluid but how do I know if fluid is leaking or if air is still getting in? It's goopy both around the pump and the resivoir connections but I never did an engine cleaning so that might be residual fluid from 2 months ago? Fluid level is at the cold min line so it might be low....I know dexron 3 atf is recommended but manual also says "never use different brands together" Important? How do I know what's in there now? Also from researching other posts I see some recs for Lucas oil product. Is that this stuff: http://tinyurl.com/q9agh Sorry for the long post but I'm trying to get all the info out there. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I'd take a turkey baster and suck as much of the old fluid out and put some fresh fluid back in. If the fluid has consistantly been aerated, you may not be able to get the air out of it. So if the noise gets better with new fluid, but is still there, I'd drive the car a little, and then remove the fluid again and replace a second time to flush as much of the old stuff out. Also, do make sure to use plain old Dextron III (you'll most likely only find Dextron IV or V, which is fine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 subarus don't have bleeding issues so that's not likely your problem. other vehicles do, but not subarus. every one i've ever done just takes a couple turns of the wheel and it's done. i'd guess the pump is failing or air is getting into the system. if you turn the wheel a bunch and then check the fluid immediately do you see air bubbles mixed in the fluid? ATF retains bubbles well if it gets aerated and often shows. that's a good question about leaking or air getting sucked in. all the leaky pumps i've seen are due to the oring at the base of the reservoir of the pump and did not cause any noises or issues so i would guess air doesn't get sucked in there. but maybe if it's a worse leak it would, i don't know. is yours leaking somewhere else? like the back plate of the pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allpar Mod Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Trapping air during PS parts replacement is a very common occurance. I recently replaced both a pump and high pressure line on my F-150. It whined like a schoolgirl stuck under a bus. (I don't know how I came up with that one ) To get all the air out of the system, just run the vehicle a while then work the steering wheel slowly lock to lock numerous times. It may take a while to get all of the air out of the system so be patient and work the steering wheel to and fro a lot, slowly. This has helped immensely the few times I've done PS service on several types of vehicles. While you're working the air out of the pump and rack, make sure to check the level in the reservoir as it may drop as the fluid is taking up the space originally taken up by air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Trapping air during PS parts replacement is a very common occurance.All sorts of vehicles - Sables, Taurus, Caravans, Ford trucks etc, can have difficulty bleeding. Subaru's are not like those statistically speaking though, bleeding issues are rare. Of course he should check and be sure but I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it on a Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 The radiator hose bursting and now the P/S pump acting up may be just coincidental happenings. Since you cleaned off the P/S belt, and if you don't thinking it is slipping, then it must be your pump. I can't imagine that any aeration of the ATF is your problem. I replaced the P/S unit on my Leggie a few years back. I bought a used one from a wrecking yard for $35. I never did any air bleeding on the install. I simply filled it up with ATF, and it worked perfectly for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 dumb question: have you checked the fluid level? is the noise a belt squeal or a pump / rack noise? i had belt squeal at start up after my engine swap on my 97 GT, so i tighten the belt. it came back a few weeks later so i bought a gator back? belt. that fixed it for months. but sadly it has started making noise again. i think i'll swap in a different pump, since i have one on the shelf. this car is a little more difficult to turn than my outback. but it may need an alignment. we'll see. good luck with the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Sorry to have ignored all these replies...for some reason the board has not notified me of them (though I have instant email notification enabled) so I thought there were none. I'd added more fluid (it was at the minimum level) but that doesn't seem to make any difference. I'll try the turkey baster method when I have time. It seems too much a coincidence that the "moaning" started right after I messed with the hose/belts. Then when I found the site I linked to in my original post it seemed like exactly what was going on. It did seem to me that I had the shroud pulled over too tightly to the right and that that would put pressure on the PS line. Legacy777...you say make sure to use dexrtonIII but that IV or V is fine...so which is it? I need to use III or III, IV or V? I may not have time to mess with this over the next few days. The good news is I finally have some work! Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 OK, I had an old email address registered with this forum. Fixed that so I should be appraised of replies from now on. Old German folk saying: We get too late smart and too soon old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 you say make sure to use dexrtonIII but that IV or V is fine...so which is it? I need to use III or III, IV or V? dextrol 3 is auto trans fluid, so is 4 and 5, just newer and more improved. any of the 3 is good, just do not use brake or another fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 dextrol 3 is auto trans fluid, so is 4 and 5, just newer and more improved. any of the 3 is good, just do not use brake or another fluid. Ah, got it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) Sables, Taurus, Caravans, Ford trucks Well 3 of those are Fords, which are THE absolute worst for PS noise. If it doesn't go away after turning the wheel from lock to lock a few times you probably have a bearing on it's way out. Take the belt off and wiggle the pulley to see if the shaft has any play. How much deflection is there in the belt for the PS pump? A belt too tight will eat the bearings up pretty quick. Edited October 6, 2010 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 If it doesn't go away after turning the wheel from lock to lock a few times you probably have a bearing on it's way out. Take the belt off and wiggle the pulley to see if the shaft has any play. How much deflection is there in the belt for the PS pump? A belt too tight will eat the bearings up pretty quick. Maybe I'll have time to try this this weekend. Not being an experienced mechanic, there's a real possibility I'd over-tightened the belt.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 Wanting to re-open this thread with new info/question... I wasnt' having success trying to get the air out of my ps but on the latest inspection I realized it's leaking fluid (maybe taking in air) and it seems to be leaking out of the top fitting on the pump. There's a rubber hose that goes from the bottom of the reservoir to a fitting on the top of the pump. I assume that is the fluid return or intake line. The fitting is held on with a T-30 bolt. I took that fitting off and I see that there's two O-rings where it inserts into the pump body. I'm assuming I need to replace those rings. Do I need to go to a Subaru dealer to get these or is there an easier way? (dealer is 30 to 40 mins away) If I call and ask if they're in stock, what should I be asking for? Thanks again for all help, John PS: I know it's taking me a long time to get this done but it is fishing season here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 You're probably best off getting the o-rings from the dealer. You may be able to try and find one at a local parts stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 If it were me, I would buy a used P/S unit from a wrecking yard. The pumps can be bought on the cheap, and installed in very little time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 I would do that in a heartbeat if it were easy. The only dealer in Charleston doesn't have them in stock and I was never clear that we were talking about the same o-rings. He gave me a part # 34439ae00a to which I can find no references at all. I tried another dealer a couple of hrs away and they gave me a different part # 34621ac021. He also seemed to have trouble looking up the part. I found this schematic of the ps pump on a subaru site but they don't break it down enough to show these o-rings. http://tinyurl.com/24k5fhu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 If it were me, I would buy a used P/S unit from a wrecking yard. The pumps can be bought on the cheap, and installed in very little time. Really? Even though it's cheap and easy it couldn't be as cheap and easy as replacing the o-rings could it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 (edited) http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b12/type_21/steering/oil_pump/ hope this helps. but i would think a whine would indicate low fluid or a bearing problem in the pump. so o rings may fix the leak but will it rrepair the damage, if there is any? call these guys, and have them ship it to you. it takes 30 - 40 minutes to install. 2002 Power Steering Pump/Motor Subaru LegacyGT, AWD BDE3879 $35 McCarty Auto Parts USA-GA(Hazlehurst) Request_Quote 912-375-2813 / 912-375-2675 Request_Insurance_Quote EDIT: i guess it is possible, but i don't think likely, that the belt is causing the noise since it got soaked???? you might consider changing it. but for the price of the used pump, new fluid and the belt you can be fixed and driving again. the cost will still be less than an hour at most repair shops. Edited November 16, 2010 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Those O-Rings were going to be what I was going to mention but it looks as if you beat me to it. Anyways, the O-rings can be replaced with generic ones from a parts store. I've gotten them before from a generic parts store and from a hardware store (only thing around and I was lucky!) The writer of the article you posted in your original post, is actually a friend of mine that owns an independent Subaru repair shop here in Kirkland. His shop was voted for best independent shop in the area from consumers. If you need anymore help, give either Justin or Ryan (another really good friend of mine) a call at their shop. (425)828-3600. They can even get the O-rings you need and can ship them too IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 Those O-Rings were going to be what I was going to mention but it looks as if you beat me to it. Anyways, the O-rings can be replaced with generic ones from a parts store. I've gotten them before from a generic parts store and from a hardware store (only thing around and I was lucky!) The writer of the article you posted in your original post, is actually a friend of mine that owns an independent Subaru repair shop here in Kirkland. His shop was voted for best independent shop in the area from consumers. If you need anymore help, give either Justin or Ryan (another really good friend of mine) a call at their shop. (425)828-3600. They can even get the O-rings you need and can ship them too IIRC. Everyone loves it when what they already believe is confirmed and I admit I've never stopped thinking that the ps problem as Justin laid it out in my original link is exactly what is happening with my car. If I can't find the rings close to me I'll contact him and see if he'll sell me a couple. It's possible that just taking it apart and putting it back together today will "re-set" the fitting and stop the leak but it seemed to go in without much friction so I don't think the rings are making a very tight seal. johnceggleston, if the o-ring replacement doesn't work I'll contact your source for a new pump but I'm going to try the rings first. Thanks for the help everyone! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Really? Even though it's cheap and easy it couldn't be as cheap and easy as replacing the o-rings could it? His pump may have more issues then just o-rings. Replacing o-rings may not fix the problem. Still think used unit from a wrecking yard is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 His pump may have more issues then just o-rings. Replacing o-rings may not fix the problem. Still think used unit from a wrecking yard is the way to go. Rooster2, I am the original poster and I realize it could be more than just the o-rings but there's a good chance that's all it is and they're so easy and cheap to change out that it seems worth a shot. I was approaching it thinking that maybe there was something more but when I saw the fresh fluid around that fitting and in lieu of the info in my original link, I'm really hopeful that's it. I'll let you all know when I get it resolved and the water will get too cold for fishing before long so I should be able to get to it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Rooster2, I am the original poster and I realize it could be more than just the o-rings but there's a good chance that's all it is and they're so easy and cheap to change out that it seems worth a shot. I was approaching it thinking that maybe there was something more but when I saw the fresh fluid around that fitting and in lieu of the info in my original link, I'm really hopeful that's it. I'll let you all know when I get it resolved and the water will get too cold for fishing before long so I should be able to get to it.... Yea, maybe the o-ring replacement will solve your problem. I am not trying to rain on your parade. New o-ring may be your fix. Hey, we are only talking o-rings in a P/S unit. Not like something important like all your rod bearings. I hope o-rings solve your problem. Let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Thanks for that first link. That was exactly my problem. My belt cover shroud was pulling up on the fluid line on the power steering pump.. What a stupid way to attach the belt shroud. My respect for Subaru went from a 95 percent to a 93... Also the shroud design sucks where it attaches at the other end. It gets caught when tightening or loosening that bolt, and often bends the sheet metal. I have to stick a brace in behind it to keep it straight. Oh, well. At least I fixed my horrible squealing, foaming, noisy power steering system. thanks again for that link. Matt 2000 OB LTD w/100K I had a hose break while up in the mtns about 2 months ago and it sprayed radiator fluid all over the belts. I replaced the hose and cleaned off the belts (which were nearly new) and all seemed ok except there seemed to be a slight noise associated with the power steering. Once home the noise seemed to increase and searching around I found this site: http://tinyurl.com/yel97e7 This seemed to be my situation and I did notice that I'd put pressure on the ps return tube. So I re-adjusted the shroud but didn't bleed the system hoping to avoid any real effort as I gather the air sometimes works its way out on its own. Now the ps has gotten louder and very consistently making noise. It makes noise as soon as I start turning the wheel (with the car sitting still) and gets louder as I move towards locking the wheel to either direction. I read up on how to bleed the system (I *think* I follow which lines to disconnect) and I'll do so when I get some proper replacement fluid but how do I know if fluid is leaking or if air is still getting in? It's goopy both around the pump and the resivoir connections but I never did an engine cleaning so that might be residual fluid from 2 months ago? Fluid level is at the cold min line so it might be low....I know dexron 3 atf is recommended but manual also says "never use different brands together" Important? How do I know what's in there now? Also from researching other posts I see some recs for Lucas oil product. Is that this stuff: http://tinyurl.com/q9agh Sorry for the long post but I'm trying to get all the info out there. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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