jagris Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Ok, so I decided to rebuild my dieing engine so I can drive in snow for the winter. After many mishaps, breaking bolts, and wrong sized helicoils I now have a complete engine. I put new everything, pistons, bearings, rods, gaskets, pumps, plugs, wires, etc. By myself I finally manage to get the thing in the car, hook it up, plug it in, and it just turns and turns. I am getting spark at coil and at plugs. I can hear the fuel pump engaging. All wires are plugged in, starter spins the engine and everything looks good. Except there is no sound of any combustion, not even a hint of turning over. I did not make a mark where my disty lined up with the cam tower. The book says "line it up with the mark you made," well I didn't make one. I have two thoughts of what might be the problem and I am hoping you subaru gurus may answer my prayers. One: The timing is 180* off. Two: The fuel lines need to be bled or something. I have turned it over and over and you would think fuel would make its way to the injectors. Here is a little picture I drew looking at the engine from the front of the car. Is something wrong with my picture? Are the dots on the cam sprockets opposite? I can smell gas fumes from tail pipe, So I think it is getting fuel. Can't figure it out and would like to have my car back. Thanks, JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 22, 2010 Author Share Posted November 22, 2010 AND, cams and rotor are spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WASHroad Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 I am fairly new here too, but have put on a few timing belts to get my 88 GL running. So when installing the new belts, did you put on one then rotate engine 180 degrees and then install the next one? By the looks of the diagram you provided it looks like you did. So is the distributor off 180? What I did to check is pull the #1 spark plug. Which is the forward passenger side. Then use a breaker bar or 1/2 ratchet, roll then engine over and feel for compression coming up on the open cylinder. Bring up the timing mark to TDC or 20 degrees timing mark and pull the distribtor cap. It should be pointing at the #1 cylinder on the cap, if it is pointing 180 off,, there ya go. Only other deal is if you set your valve clearance before starting, not sure what the cold setting should be. If the valves are too tight and not sealing,, no running.. Do you have a compression gagage you can check the cylinder compersion? Wow, did that mess you up or was there any help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WASHroad Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Forgot, it should fire right off if everything else is correct. 8-12 sec. on the key crankin will take care of the fuel lines. So I think something else is messed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Engine needs to be rotated a full 369 degrees, not 180, after installing the first belt. Need to also use the correct marks on the flywheel. But having said this, the engine would have fired on 2 cylinders even if the second belt was installed out of phase. I know this because I didn't install the second belt correctly the first time I did a timing belt job and the engine ran on just 2 cylinders. So it appears the distributor timing is way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 maybe I did it backwards... if I switch the firing order from 1-3-2-4 to 4-2-3-1 would it work? or is that a totally retarded question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 ok that is a retarded question. I went through the factory service manual procedure for installing timing belts with my engine. LH cam is aligned to the middle line on flywheel. Turned full circle and RH is also aligned with center line. Did the finger test on #1 cylinder and at the end of the compression stroke when you stop feeling air pushing past your finger the disty is at the #1 firing position. I smelled gas on the spark plug so there is fuel in there. It's just turning and turning. I'm gonna go check for spark one more time. But I am really stumped. Anyone have any ideas?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 fuel lines could be on backward. The fuel pressure regulator is after the injeotrs and on the return side in these cars. the topmost center fuel fitting should be the inlet side. you have to be particular with the timing sequences to get them right. When installing the belts, there will ne 2 full rotations to align the belts, and then another 3.4 rotation to set the timing. watch these videos as this may help you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 fuel lines could be on backward. The fuel pressure regulator is after the injeotrs and on the return side in these cars. the topmost center fuel fitting should be the inlet side. you have to be particular with the timing sequences to get them right. When installing the belts, there will ne 2 full rotations to align the belts, and then another 3.4 rotation to set the timing. watch these videos as this may help you Timing belt procedure and alignment Distributor install and alignment(from immediately after aligning the belts) The fuel lines are good, none of the intake was messed with except new injector seals. Some of the vacuums lines I may have guessed on around the air boot. Would that make it not turn over? Should turn over and be rough if I messed that up right? That video helped. Did exactly what it says in the video link and the next video, and to no prevail. Was looking at cap and rotor and they seem to be pretty old. cap has notches where the rotor hits and the rotor is also well worn. Going to go get new ones in the morning and pray to the gods of subaru's that's the problem. Maybe I should spend my money on some tnt and blow the thing to subaru hell instead. Anyone have an ea82t for CHEAP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 HEre's a review of the FSM disty installation guide. Set the Crank so that the TDC 0 mark (not the 3 timing belt marks, but the actual TDC 0) is aligned with the bellhousing mark. Now look at your cam sprockets. the dots should be at a 45 degree slant, opposite eachother. If they are pointed "in" at eachother rotate the engine another 360, until the dots are pointed 45 degrees "out" Once you have that, then pull the disty. Aling the dot on the disty gear with the notch on the disty housing. Install the disty. This should get you right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 The fuel lines are good, none of the intake was messed with except new injector seals. Some of the vacuums lines I may have guessed on around the air boot. Would that make it not turn over? Should turn over and be rough if I messed that up right? An unmetered air leak could make for a hard start, but I would think it would sputter at least a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 Okay went and got cap and rotor this morning, nothing. I am stumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 I may have missed it, but are you getting spark from the coil? Spark to the plugs? I just had a issue with my Brat that it was getting spark from the coil but not to the plugs. Turns out the coil spark wasnt hot enough.....ie, a bad coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 Yep, spark from coil and plugs. Gonna do some electrical testing on injectors. I'm getting no fire which is driving me mad. All the electrical worked perfect before I pulled the engine, and I'm finding myself testing things that I know work. Hopefully I'll find the culprit soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 It makes a high pitch whine when it rotates and some say that could be the timing. So I'm gonna redo the belts again and see if that does it. I have a new radiator to drop in anyway and i didn't put the covers on so it shouldn't take too long. Thanks everyone for their input. Much appreciated. I have learned a lot from USMB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 I just had a issue with my Brat that it was getting spark from the coil but not to the plugs. Turns out the coil spark wasnt hot enough.....ie, a bad coil. Thank you turbone! Went and got a $15 coil from napa, put it in along with new cap, rotors, wires and she started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suberfox Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 YAY! Yup....a coil can be very misleading. Glad you found the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagris Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 First start after full rebuild in 15* weather! Whoooo! She's ALIVE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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