eryque Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 So I'm shopping for a Gen II Outback, and found that my local dealer's service department has been very helpful in looking up the service history on prospective targets for me. There's a real sweet '02 Outback LTD for sale, but no history of the headgaskets being replaced. I asked the service guy "Am I making too big of a deal about this? Would you buy one that hadn't already had the headgasket replaced?" His answer: an emphatic "NO." Doesn't get more cut and dried than that. To hell with Phase I vs. Phase II. His experience is that if the factory headgasket hasn't already failed, it most likely will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The phase-II headgasket issue is nothing to concern yourself about. They weep some coolant and sometimes oil on the drivers side. The coolant conditioner almost always stops it. And replacement of the head gaskets is relatively easy. I would buy a phase-II and have no qualms about it. Phase-I's are a much larger problem. I would totally buy one with a blown phase-I and replace with an EJ22 though. Done several of these and it's a great swap. Looks factory. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eryque Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Please don't take this as a sign of disrespect, but when you have access to a factory trained mechanic who has worked on literally hundreds of these things, you'd be wise to follow his advice. This is also the first time I've heard of this job being described as "relatively easy." Doable, yes... but it would probably take me far longer to do than I can really make time for, which would mean paying someone else lots of money to do it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I hang out on this forum, and read most everything. I have not heard of any(?) phase 2 head gaskets being replaced. It is the usual complaint of slight leakage of coolant out of the engine, that is corrected by Subaru additive to the coolant. This does not result in a road side break down with an over heated motor. So, I don't recommend kissing off a very nice 2002 phase 2 motor just because you can't verify if it ever had a head gasket issue. That's nuts. I'm thinking your Sub mechanic guy must have misunderstood your question. His "NO" answer must have been directed to the phase 1 motor head gasket issue. The head gasket replacement talk is always about the 2.5 phase 1 motor that over heats and causes the break down. This is the motor that requires head gasket replacement, or some guys just replace with the venerable 2.2 motor. BTW, I own and drive two Subies, a 98 and 99. Both are Phase 1, that I bought both used. My wife and I have put 50K miles each on both cars with no head gasket trouble. I don't know if the head gaskets were ever replaced. I bought both before joining this forum, and never heard about phase 1 doom and gloom until joining USMB. I don't consider all Phase 1 motors as head gasket time bombs. Sure, it is a reputation that I live with, but with timely coolant changes, and replacing the rad cap every 3 years, I have't had any trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eryque Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 "I read it on the internet, so it must be true!" :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Please don't take this as a sign of disrespect, but when you have access to a factory trained mechanic who has worked on literally hundreds of these things, you'd be wise to follow his advice. He has a very..... "biased" veiw. He see's stuff that breaks. He probably doesn't bother considering how few of them that really is in the scheme of things. He also follows the direction of his management and probably is replacing a lot of them without neccesity. Management see's a lot more profit in replacing head gaskets than dumping in a $1.49 worth of conditioner and explaining to the customer that it's not really an issue if you keep up on coolant changes and use the additive. I have a Forester with 250k on it and two bottles of conditioner fixed it right up. It has made multiple 500+ mile trips and hasn't lost a drop since I put it in. The VAST majority of these engines are the same. Also - they redesigned the head gasket. If you get into one with the INTENT of replacing the head gaskets premptively you can be assured of a long future of leak-free reliability. A friend of mine did this very thing - bought a '99 Forester with 110k on it. Only seeping a bit of oil but no coolant. We pulled the engine and replaced the head gaskets, did the 105k timing belt job, sealed it all up and replaced coolant hoses, slave cylinder, etc. It's going to be trouble-free now for another 105k till the next belt is due. Frankly it's a good investment and a great bargaining chip to pull out on a prospective seller that may or may not know the head gaskets are leaking. Get $1000 off the price and you have easily payed for the job. Furthermore - you are shooting for the moon with a used car. Something is bound to break sooner or later on whatever you buy. If you plan on a major service right from the start you will both know where you stand AND be ahead in terms of cost. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Please don't take this as a sign of disrespect, but when you have access to a factory trained mechanic who has worked on literally hundreds of these things, you'd be wise to follow his advice..there's factory trained mechanics as members here and many of us are acquaintances with some. i, and others here, can list countless subaru questions a factory trained guy couldn't begin to answer off the top of his head. we know more inside and outs - they know all the stuff they're supposed to regurgitate and sell. in some ways some here are far more knowledgeable than a factory trained mechanic. factory guys are trained to do the same thing over and over and sell services, not provide information and the best fit and dig into and see failure areas, test things, try things, consider alternate repairs, etc. factory trained guys make me a lot of money - they quote $3,000 repair jobs that I buy cheap, fix for $50 and flip for a lot of money. thank you mr. know it all mechanic guy that scares people to sell their cars - i can start telling stories. GD is right the Phase II's are far simpler in a lot of ways. heads are easier to remove. less work and parts to remove and easier to do without pulling the engine (a huge plus). fewer cam sprockets to deal with, don't have to remove the caps and keep all the cam bearing surfaces in proper order, etc. also - Phase I's leave you stranded when they fail. Phase II's will run 100,000 miles once they start leaking. completely different. there's a HUGE difference. Subaru will sell the same service to a customer that comes in with those same issues on different engines - but real world experience paints a much bigger picture with far more forgiving, less costly, and more reliable options for the Phase II's. a smart consumer knows his options and make good decisions. all this coming from someone that generally considers the EJ25 Subaru's worst motor - except how easy I have made a lot of money on them over the years, that's nice. sounds like the EJ25 isn't for you though if you're this amped up about one person's anecdotal opinion. sounds like you'd be thoroughly PO'ed if your research and stuff failed and this didn't pan out how you hoped. getting one already done probably is a good idea. make sure they're repaired properly with Subaru headgaskets. If you're not sure, don't buy it. The aftermarkets on these suck. The trusty mechanic wont' know this but there are some subaru engines where aftermarket headgaskets are better - but this is not one of them. i'd also recommend looking into H6 engines, those are fantastic engines. the one major concern with them takes 30 minutes and costs $10 to repair yourself or $200 at a mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 <<I asked the service guy "Am I making too big of a deal about this? Would you buy one that hadn't already had the headgasket replaced?" His answer: an emphatic "NO.">> <<Please don't take this as a sign of disrespect, but when you have access to a factory trained mechanic who has worked on literally hundreds of these things, you'd be wise to follow his advice.>> wait, did you say you asked the service guy or the factory trained mechanic? im confused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Didyu ever stop for a moment and think that he may have been looking at the car for himself and just wanted to scare you away. The service guys here get a really good deal on the used cars and then they flip thme for a good profit. Son't think for a moment that he was just being honest with you. He may have has ulterior motives in telling you to stay away from that car. As GD said about his car, I too, have a 99 forester and put the additive in my car and have driven on several long trips and have had not a single problem. If I were you, I would go back to the dealer and see if I could get a better deal on the car. If it isn't there any more, check and see if that mechnic bought it. That is, if they will tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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