Husker4 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I believe I have 2 separate electrical issues that I discovered while trying to solve an intermittent battery drain problem. This is a (used) new car to me and have been slowly fixing minor things wrong. 1. I have a Fluke mulitmeter and tested the alternator for a bad diode. I get a reading both ways coming out the alternator so per what the book says this means it can drain off the battery. Does it make sense that this could be intermittent? Is this part of the alt. recall I've heard about?? 2. I have an odd situation with the vanity mirrors. The passenger side vanity mirror has no 'flap' to cover up the mirror and activate it's switch. Neither set of vanity lights work. If i open the driver's side vanity 'flap' it pulls down the engine, but still no lights. If i undo the ground located on driver's side vanity mirror there is no reaction. Also with the engine off I did this test and when I opened the vanity 'flap' the engine fans came on. (this is with key on engine off) Like wise touch the ground and fans come on, release the ground fans go off. 3. I also did the battery drain check per the fluke book and got zero readings--nothing at all. With the drivers side door open I would guess that it would show some kind of draw just for the 'open door' indicator.??? Electrical stuff always winds up making me tear my hair out!!! Any help or additional diagnoses wout be appreciated. Love that you guys have this site, I've gleaned tons of info already and fixed a stalling problem with the car already just from searching....thanks! I'm currently going to 'get by' by undoing the battery ground when in use...the alternator charges just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbhrps Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Husker4, Logic tells me that you have a short somewhere in the wiring of those vanity mirrors, if activating one drags the engine down. Remove the sunshade from the ceiling and check the wiring and connector at the A pillar, and then further down at the kick panel. Check both sides, since they may be wired together, or both may have their own route down the A pillars to a power source. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker4 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Yes, I'd agree about the short in the vanity circuit there somewhere. What I was hoping for was that there would be some specific location where this short normally happens...(that's what I was hoping for!)...As far as the A-pillar cover...I don't see how it comes off..not screws anywhere and I don't want to just blindly start prying on it and break clips or whatever. Also, with the oddity of the vanity short making the engine fans turn on...a real electrical whiz on these cars would be able to locate the short because of that odd anomaly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) I'm not so sure the vanity mirror is causing a short problem. It sounds to me that there may be a missing ground problem though. You stated you can "touch the ground and fans come on, release the ground fans go off.". What exactly are you doing when you do that? The fans may be turning on because the test and diagnostic connectors under the dash are connected together. Have you checked that? As for the current reading problem, if you are setting up the testing correctly using the meter then there is most likely a blown protection fuse inside the meter for the current test mode. The manual will have information about it. There should be some current flow coming from the battery at all times to provide power to memory circuits at least. When the car is parked and things have gone into the sleep mode the current draw should be around 15 to 25 milliamps. When testing in the current mode of the meter you have to be careful and choose a current range that can handle the current load of the circuit you want to test. If you use the small range of 2 amps with the lights turned on it will blow out the meter fuse. Your meter may have two fuses. One for the low current range and one for the high range. Edited June 26, 2011 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker4 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Cougar, thanks for the reply. I can tell from your suggestions and questions that "Elite Master of the Subaru" is no hoax!...If you're patient enough I'm sure we can figure this out. I'm used to working on 87/88 tbird turbo coupes but on those I had a full shop manual to hand. I don't yet have one for my Subaru so I'm trying to muddle through with a little help. thanks 1. fan on, fan off situation--I had the driver's side sun visor unscrewed. There is a ground there for the visor. With the visor flap open, when I touched that ground back to the roof the fans came on. 2."... the test and diagnostic connectors under the dash are connected together. Have you checked that?"---no I haven't....was not even aware that could be a possibility. I do have an Actron code reader and that just plugs in, never thought to check for anything like you talk about...Can you give me a little more info on that? What it looks like, why someone would have connected it? 3. regarding the blown fuse in the meter. That makes sense. I couldn't figure out how it could be a complete zero draw. Just to double check my work I did take it to the parts store and have them check the alternator and specifically asked them to check the diodes....everything read fine and he also checked for a draw and it showed just a very few milliamps. I didn't mention earlier that part of this process was fixing some radio issues. The previous owner installed an aftermarket radio and had some bare wires left hanging. I connected the one speaker wire that was undone and taped up the other unused bare wires. Then today when I was driving around I noticed my cigarette lighter doesn't work anymore (did get a spark there when i was taking the radio trim piece out. Not sure if it's related but today I also opened the visor flap and I did not notice the engine pulling down. Additional note: the vanity lights have never worked. Not an issue for me personally but might be useful data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) My info shows a grn/red wire supplies power to the mirror light and a black wire ties to ground. I don't see how connecting the black wire to ground can cause the situation you describe unless something is really not wired correctly and wires have crossed possibly. Check to see if there is voltage on the grn/red wire with the ignition ON. Also check the grounds tieing to the engine and make sure they are making good connection. There may be a set of green connectors under the dash with a single wire tieing to them. If you find them and they are connected then disconnect them. They are only connected when testing is needed. To fix your meter you will need to remove the back side to access the fuse and replace it. It may You most likely blew a fuse when you shorted the lead to the lighter. Edited June 27, 2011 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker4 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 My info shows a grn/red wire supplies power to the mirror light and a black wire ties to ground. I don't see how connecting the black wire to ground can cause the situation you describe unless something is really not wired correctly and wires have crossed possibly. Check to see if there is voltage on the grn/red wire with the ignition ON. Also check the grounds tieing to the engine and make sure they are making good connection. There may be a set of green connectors under the dash with a single wire tieing to them. If you find them and they are connected then disconnect them. They are only connected when testing is needed. To fix your meter you will need to remove the back side to access the fuse and replace it. It may You most likely blew a fuse when you shorted the lead to the lighter. Thanks this is all good information. I just went out and looked and found the two green connectors, looks like they would plug into each other but they are hanging separately and no wire connecting them. For curiosity's sake and general info, what kind of testing would one be doing when these are connected with a wire and why would they appear to mate with each other and not be plugged in to each other?? Regarding the grn/red wire: I took off the side kick panel and below the fusebox found what may be a previous owner patch job. There is a red wire attached to the grn/red wire with a plastic splice connector. The red wire runs up the drivers side A-pillar and goes under the headliner toward the visor. That doesn't seem like a factory wiring solution to me???? And yes I looked and the vanities and lighter are on the same fuse so I burnt the fuse and that makes sense why it's not causing the fan thing anymore. Thanks again for the help. I'm getting a better feel for the car but really wish I had a full shop manual, this would be lots easier with pictures!!!...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The green connectors do mate with each other but are only connected when checking operation of things. You can tie them together and see what happens. Just be sure to disconnect them when you are done. The red wire appears to be a modification for something. It may help to disconnect that wire and see if that makes any change with the mirror ground wire. Check out Ebay for manuals at a reasonable price. Even a CD version would help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker4 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Good spot on the burnt fuses in my multi-meter. The ONLY place that had them was ACE Hardware-not even Radio Shack had the right fuses. They are a little pricey but they almost always have the oddball nut/bolt or screw, etc. that you need. Is always good to check there if you need the piece right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker4 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Ok, so I puttered with it some more. And now the vanity lights work ad so does the lighter and there is no more of the odd thing with the fans coming on and off. All I did this time was change out the fuse that I had burnt for the lighter. I checked out the red wire and it just led up to the mirrors and had no nicks in it anywhere. Bought new fuses for the Multi-meter and put them in and rechecked for battery drain. I had it on the 10amp pin and had a reading of '196'...if I opened the door that reading went to '283' due to the open door indicator in the dash. (I had both dome lights turned off) none of the interior fusebox fuses caused a voltage drop. Under the hood, when I pulled the "clock, room" fuse the reading dropped to 005. I'm a little fuzzy on whether that's ok as the meter didn't use a decimal point. Please note that though I have really good meter I'm not nearly as good at this as the meter is...lol (it's a Fluke 88 meter if that makes any difference) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Sometimes you need an analog meter (cheapo at raioshack) as a fluke cant always pick things up. Do you have a ow enough range on the fluke (I amgine you do). How are you checking. With the altenator, with a bad diode set you should be having a charge issue. What is the voltage at the battery when the car is running. You can pull all the fuses overnight and see if you stil have a drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 A Fluke 88 is a very good meter. Very nice choice. I have one of those myself. You should have changed your scale to the 2 amp scale once you found out the current draw was under an amp. If the first reading is 196 milliamps and there was nothing turned on that is too much current draw if things are in the sleep mode. You need to leave things connected for a few minutes to see if the current level drops. You did this at the store already I think and things seemed ok there. You should see less than 25 milliamps if things are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 my bad lissed the readings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker4 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Ok, just so this is a completed thread I had to jump the damn car again!...checked it out and once I unplugged the aftermarket radio no more battery drain....so the radio stays out till I get a replacement or find the short in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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