zundfolge Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hello all, I know I don't post that often, but nonetheless perhaps someone can share a qualified opinion on this.... I have a 1998 2.5 which I just had to pull out of car after sudden failure. The #4 Rod bearing is very loose (at least 1/4" play). Oil pan covered in metal sludge. No other problems immediately evident. I can't get the rod cap off since it looks like case needs to be split to do this. I did the heads 60k mile ago, and looking through the spark plug hole I do not see any damage to the top of #4 piston. I poured gas into the valve ports and valves do not leak, so I'm crossing my fingers heads are still good. I guess my question is for anyone that has sent out a bottom end for rebuilding. How much success is likely with being able to turn crankshaft and install oversize bearings? What is the best source for hard parts like crankshaft, con rods, oversized bearings and rings? Thanks, Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Any machine shop that's worth their salt will be able to tell you if the crank is worth polishing and reusing. As far as the block is concerned, as long as you didn't you didn't put the rod through it, it should be good to go with a minor bore and hone. You might even be able to pull off a simple re-ring, but if you're going to do the bottom end work you might as well make the cylinders right. Depending on the shop a bore and hone is anywhere from $150 - 300, checking, grinding and polishing the crank is around $100 at the places around here. Cost of a replacement crank varies pretty widely depending on the engine. I have no idea what an engine kit (bearings, rings, oversize pistons) would cost for one of these. Otherwise, cheaper solution is typically to just replace the engine with a used one. But then you risk having the same thing happen again not such a long time later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zundfolge Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 "Otherwise, cheaper solution is typically to just replace the engine with a used one. But then you risk having the same thing happen again not such a long time later. " __________ This is what I'm thinking. I can't find a used engine for less than $1k around SoCal anyway. May as well rebuild for that price. But I have a feeling that the crankshaft is FUBAR'ed, and I don't know where to get another one..seems like salvage yards won't sell the bottom end by itself, much less individual parts. If only it were a small block Chevy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm sure there are a few people on this board who would sell you a crank cheap if you need one. Ask in the Classifieds section. Generally machine shops will have connections for replacement parts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Otherwise, cheaper solution is typically to just replace the engine with a used one. But then you risk having the same thing happen again not such a long time later. i just had a thought. it may be more expensive than an ej22 swap or an ej25 replacement, but if the right engine could be found..... buy a SOHC ej25 (00 - 04) and put your DOHC heads and intake on it. the blocks for the most part are all the same. then you eliminate the ''bad bottom end'' potential of a used DOHC and dramatically reduce if not eliminate the chance of the bad head gaskets . the i deal engine would be one with a bad timing belt and bent valves. just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 getting a used DOHC EJ25 is something i try to avoid at all costs. i don't care how many miles it has, it's very rare to know the complete history of 10+ year old engines that are prone to overheating. JCE has a great suggestion - the SOHC EJ25's would be a much better donor short block. if a belt breaks the valves get bent so it needs head job, etc and the engine/block should be much cheaper. CA - broke cam gear: 1-831-722-5050, berkely CA bad headgasket 1-510-525-5132, these guys have just a 2000 short block for $350 in berkley: 1-510-525-5132 and these guys have two with no price listed: 1-619-426-1166 car-parts.com is where i got those from, you can search for the lowest priced engines (Which tend to be cores or have issues - like broken timing belts/bent valves), or just the short block. i've swapped short blocks before like that, the blocks are identical in terms of bolting heads to them. i actually went the other way, DOHC block with SOHC heads. either way, they're the same. GD (a board member here - General Disorder) knows a shop in Portland Oregon that rebuilds EJ25 bottom ends for $600. I would think that's a great option for you. They do a lot of them so they know what they're doing and GD knows his junk so I'd go with them if he says it's a good deal (which I believe he has). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zundfolge Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Thanks for the tip on the SOHC block. I did find a vendor that would sell the SOHC short block used for $450...though they did have the candor to say that inspection only consists of taking off the oil pan to see if there is metal in there. Used crankshaft is $200...ouch! I sent my bottom end to a machine shop, would prefer to get it rebuilt....I've had the engine or trans out 3 times in 60k miles, would really like this to be the last time! Cyl heads 125k miles Clutch fork 150k miles Bottom end 185k miles ...and I though my BMWs were a PITA.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoneypit Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 i would personally find a 1995 2.2l from an automatic (with egr valve) and drop it in there. they are plug and play from a 95 automatic. they are a remarkable engine and will last forever with normal maint. IF you get a 96 or newer youll need the exhaust manifolds because they have the single port exhaust on 96 and newer. just make sure the engine has an egr valve, or youll have check engine light for egr flow. thats what i would do (and have done twice on my phase I 2.5 outbacks) just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastrahouse Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 ZundFolge, How did the rebuild go? What did you find when you got it apart? I am about to tear into a 99 legacy GT with the same symptoms; It suddenly (over about 5 miles) developed a nasty bottom end knock. This has been the engine from H*ll; 3 timing belts (the tensioners kept failing), blown head gasket, Valve guides that get pushed out of position (twice) causing burned valves. I have doubts about rebuilding it, but I gotta have a car, and it is still cheaper that a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 i forgot to mention this earlier but Gloyale i think knows a place in Oregon that rebuilds EJ short blocks for $600 and i was under the impression they do a lot of them. sounds like a good option to bolt some good heads to. as to Rasta's engine sounds like that engine was seriously abused at some point or some horrific luck - your experience is nowhere near the norm. i've never heard of or seen valve guides pushed out and while the new style tensioners are less reliable than the old, repeat and 3peat failures would suggest something else is at work....like gremlins or someone hates you. with borked heads and a borked bottom ends and multiple failure after failure - i'd move on unless you're really time rich. good luck whatever route you take, sometimes trying to decide whether to work with what you got or move on gets old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastrahouse Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The timing belts was from an incompetent shop that started out with an aftermarket tensioner. I caught it before the belt broke, but after it had skipped a tooth on one cam. They replaced it under waranty with a Subaru part this time. The second one was also a failed tensioner, my new shop caught it before it broke, the old shop paid for it again. The new shop tells me that even the Subaru tensioners occasionally fail early; they had one fail 5 minutes after a rebuild, during their checkout. It destroyed the motor and they had to replace it. The new shop also tells me that the valve guide on #4 can be a real problem on the DOHC motor. For some reason it gets more heat that the others. They have seen a number of these. The only reason I am considering rebuilding this is that both of my kids are interested in learning how. The education opportunity make it all worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 wow, you've had a debacle with this thing. FSM's are usually easy to get a hold of if you want some Subaru specific guidance on the rebuild. shoot me a message and i can hook you up with a digital copy probably. get the MLS Subaru headgasket that ends in 610, it's a better gasket than that thin thing they're probably going to hand you if you just ask for a headgasket for your car. the exhaust valves overheat when they're not adjusted....which is common on the DOHC's, no one (exaggerating) adjusts those things because it's a crazy a!@# job. the new style tensioners do fail more often, funny since they make the timing kits more expensive too...more expensive and less reliable i keep old style brackets to swap to the more reliable old style tensioners learning opportunity with the kids - TEAR IT UP! that's awesome. mine are 3 years and the other 1 month, time to get the 3 year old dirty! weird, nothing to do with anything but EJ25's only bend valves when the belt breaks or slips, no need to replace an engine. i'm sure it's a better fit sometimes though to replace. i'm currently repairing two with bent valves now from a slipped belt and broken belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastrahouse Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The valve adjustment looks similar to my old SAAB 99 Turbo; cup followers with shims, between the cam and the valve. It took me all afternoon to get it right; but it was good for 100k miles. I'm really looking forward to that part of the rebuild:-\. I found a set of FSMs at http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/. They don't have the legacy GT, but the outback look about the same. If you have a source for the matching manual I would be grateful. My kids are 12 and 15, the perfect age. My 12 year old daughter is even more exited than my son:). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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