skoebl Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 So I was driving down the road the other day and came up to a stop light. As I slowed down the car died on me. It wouldn't start back up and I had to tow it home. I pulled the codes: Abnormal voltage to TPS, Inoperative O2 sensor, and solenoid valve inoperative. I adjusted the TPS, cleaned out the o2 sensor (not sure if it worked or not), and read that the solenoid valve wouldn't keep it from starting (is this true?) Also checked for fuel pressure and spark. Replaced the fuel filter and coil. I had replaced the spark plugs about 3,000 miles ago. All it does is crank and crank and occasionally I get a little detonation, but it doesn't start. The timing belt is brand new (ish) and I've driven about 2,000 miles on it. Any ideas as to what's wrong? I'm at a loss and reaaaallly need my car to get to work lol. Thanks in advance! Scott PS. It's a 1991 Legacy with the 2.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 My guess if you have spark and fuel would be that the timing jumped. Maybe the tensioner is weak after the replacement? Did you use any new parts or just the belt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 So I pulled the #1 spark plug and rotated the engine with a wrench until it was at TDC. All the marks on the three pulleys are equal to each other, but they seem to be off to me. Like, if you're looking at the little degree gauge on the main pulley (where it has the timing marks), I would say the notch on that pulley is at around 55 degrees (to the left of center)....is that right? And I didn't replace the belt, the PO did, and gave a receipt. Edit: Sorry, I totally misjudged how old the belt is...it's got about 6000 miles on it (that is, if the PO was honest in that he replaced it right before he sold it to me). It looks new and is in good shape at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Check the cam positions with the crank at TDC. The arrows on the cam sprockets should point straight up. Also check to make sure the belt actually moves when the engine spins. What is the actual code for the "solenoid valve"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Check the cam positions with the crank at TDC. The arrows on the cam sprockets should point straight up. Also check to make sure the belt actually moves when the engine spins. What is the actual code for the "solenoid valve"? NOT ARROWS!!!! Arrows will screw you. The hash marks. Unless I'm missing something here... dots and dashes....... always NEVER ARROWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) when working with subarus, FORGET TDC. dismiss it from your mind. it does not apply when mounting, installing or looking at timing belts. so if you actually turned the crank until the #1 cylinder was at the top, what you saw has no meaning. if you removed the plug just to make it easier to turn, that may be different. the degree marks above the timing cover mean nothing when checking to see if the crank and cams are correct. you have to remove the covers to see the timing marks on the cams . if they are both the same, you then have to remove the crank pulley, and the center cover to see the crank alignment. my apologies if i have misunderstood the situation. pic of correct timing alignment for ej22s in the 90s. Edited October 17, 2011 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 TDC, TDC, TDC!!!!! At Top Dead Center the crank pulley notch points at the 0 on the timing cover. When the crank is at TDC for number one, the arrows on the pulleys will point straight up. This is THE EASIEST WAY to check ALL THREE shafts for proper position. You only have to remove six 10mm screws to check this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Ok so if I'm reading that correctly, I need to take the crank pulley off and verify that when the piston location mark on the crankshaft sprocket is pointing to the right, the marks on the cam sprockets are at the top? So I'm getting kind of mixed info here lol..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucktile Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Sounds like the fuel pump to me. Tap the fuel tank with a mallet a couple times while cranking the engine, if it starts, its the fuel pump. I know you said you checked the fuel pressure but its worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 So my setup looks exactly like that picture. All the notches point in the right directions. What the heck else could be wrong?? I've eliminated timing, coil, and fuel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yeah I pulled the fuel pump out and checked it. It's definitely got sufficient pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucktile Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Maybe you should pull the actual fuel injectors, sometimes they get caked with carbon, usually wont make a no start issue but worth a try. Also make sure all the intake plumbing is connected properly, I have had a loose intake tube disconnect after going over train tracks, the car stalled and would'nt start until it was reconnected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Lets start with something basic, a compression test. This would clear up the timing belt issue. On the reciept were the idlers and tensioner replaced? None of those errors really should keep the car from running. Have you checked all the fuses and the fuseable links? Next lets check the fuel pressure after the pressure regulator. Are you sure you have spark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Bah...I don't have a compression tester.... Yeah I'm sure I have spark. I tried a new coil even to see if it was just weak. It was the same. There isn't any mention on the receipt, but from looking at them, they look like they are in good shape at least. They look newer than just about anything else on the motor lol. I have checked all the fuses; multiple times even. They are all good =(. How do I check for fuel pressure after the regulator? Take an injector out I assume?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Ok we have a few issues here. Being sure you have spark is not the same as having spark. How did you test the fuel pump pressure when you tested the pump? Flow does not equate to pressure. You need a fuel pressure tester to properly test both. Everything under the timing belt covers always looks new because it is in a very clean enviorment. Have you tried unplugging the knock sensor to see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Ok we have a few issues here. Being sure you have spark is not the same as having spark. How did you test the fuel pump pressure when you tested the pump? Flow does not equate to pressure. You need a fuel pressure tester to properly test both. Everything under the timing belt covers always looks new because it is in a very clean enviorment. Have you tried unplugging the knock sensor to see what happens I tested the spark by taking a plug out and grounding it while turning over the engine. I got a strong spark from it. I don't have a fuel pressure tester. I did test flow, and there seemed to be a lot (especially after I replaced the filter). The pump was replaced by the PO as well. I took it out and stuck it in a cup of gas and turned the key on, it shot out the top with what seemed like a lot of pressure. What I meant by everything looked new is that all the bearings in the pulleys looked new, without any play or anything. What would unplugging the knock sensor do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 It would be bypassing the sensor and it would be out of the circuit. A bad knock sensor can do weird things. All thats left really is the fuel injectors not working and not giving you fuel. See if the autparts store near you has a node set to rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I unplugged the knock sensor...it didn't make any difference. How do I verify that the injectors are working? I pulled one out and a bunch of gas came out of the hole it was in.... Do I need to have someone turn over the engine while I observe the injector to see if it's spraying?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 To test fuel injectors you check resistance across the terminals with a multimeter. There is no way to check spray pattern out of the car without special equipment. Check for fuel in the cylinders by removing the spark plugs after cranking for a few seconds. One is now flooded, (the one you pulled the injector) so you need to remove that spark plug and let the cylinder air out for a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Was there any stumble or hicup or otherwise oddness in the days before this? *God i am such an idiot* i shouldnt read other posts (sorry folks but it clutters my mind). There are very few things that kill a subaru. How about a bad crank sensor and or cam sensor. How is the battery voltage? And the engine oil level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) There wasn't any weirdness or anything in the days before this happened. Wouldn't a bad cam or crank sensor cause a no-spark situation? Also shouldn't they throw a code? Battery voltage is good, as well as oil level. Edited October 19, 2011 by skoebl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 So I left the battery unplugged overnight to clear the ECU codes. I tried to start it again and pulled the new codes it gave me. 13 - No signal entered from cam angle sensor, but signal (corresponding to at least two rotations of cam) entered from crank angle sensor 22 - Abnormal voltage produced in knock sensor monitor circuit 31 - Abnormal voltage input entered from throttle sensor The knock sensor one I would understand because I had unplugged it earlier to test if it made any difference. I pulled out the crank and cam sensors to check for damage. The crank sensor had a ton of metal shavings on it (from when my ac pulley decided to disintegrate into oblivion), so I cleaned that. The cam sensor was mostly clean, but I just wiped it off. Is there a way to test the cam sensor? Or at least one that doesn't require turning the car over (my roommates are at work...so no help) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Start with the cam sensor and disconnect the knock sensor. Crank controls spark, cam controls fuel injector timing. Cam sensor is easy to test as it is just a simple low voltage pulse signal. Check your grounds and harness too. For the record 5 minutes wil clear the codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 When my 2.2 was a crank/no start it had water in the spark plug wells. I pulled off the boots and blew the water out with an air compressor. Did you drive through water recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoebl Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Start with the cam sensor and disconnect the knock sensor. Crank controls spark, cam controls fuel injector timing. Cam sensor is easy to test as it is just a simple low voltage pulse signal. Check your grounds and harness too. For the record 5 minutes wil clear the codes. So I test for voltage variation while cranking right? I read somewhere that it should be like 1 or 2V normally with a dip no lower than .1V with every revolution....that sound right? I had driven through rain in the week before this happened, but the spark plug holes are completely dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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