Azhiran Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hi all, getting ready to replace the head gaskets in my 97 Legacy wagon and wanted to get some suggestions for manufactures of trusted head gaskets replacements. Want to avoid the issues with the original gaskets (ie I don't want to have to repeat this replacement in a few thousand miles), any suggestions would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Let me tell you from my own experience/research.. SUBARU OEM HEADGASKETS ONLY!!! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Here is what I do. I buy a complete engine re-seal kit and timing belt kit from domestic gaskets all the stuff is NTN, NSK, GMB...which is the same as what Suby uses. The I ditch their "junk china pop" head gaskets and buy OEM ones, along with the metal H2O pump gasket..and if its for a 2000 or newer suby I buy the suby coolant and conditioner as well. I also buy the factory style T-stat (car quest is the one that carries them in my town) When I install the HGSKT's I coat both sides (coat the block side first, set it on the block..coat other side facing up) with Permatex aviation gasket sealer...its just good insurance. I do the same for the H2O gasket as well. I also "tear" the whole engine down to just a short block...and everything gets resealed on the way out. Only use Ultra grey on your oil pan, separator plate, and oil pump, or any other application that requires silicone sealant...Its Ultra Grey or nothing....the rest is junk..well unless its the OEM fuji bond..but thats spendy. Even with buying the "OEM" stuff your still saving a huge chunk of change compared to if you were to buy it all "OEM" Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) every subaru I have done head gaskets on I have had the heads resurfaced at a auto machine shop, and used NO sealant on headgaskets. I have never had a refailure. The gaskets are precoated and DO NOT require sealant. The whole world has always told me that sealant on headgaskets is bad news because it causes a fail point between the fire ring. dealer only headgaskets (the ej22 never had a "problem" with blowing them) use a stant xactstat or dealer thermostat only. If you buy a aisin water pump (oem) from rockauto, it comes with the metal gasket exhaust and intake gaskets CAN be reused if they come off in one piece, but I always coat them in permatex copper spray-a-gasket for insurance. make sure you tighten the dog crap out of your flex plate to torque converter bolts if it's an auto. they can back off and rattle like hell and make you think that your engine is toast. do the timing belt. I like goodyear/contitech kits personally, as they rate them for 105k like stock. also replace all the idler pulleys with it (I buy the kit) also, if your seperator plate is plastic, replace it. If it is aluminum/steel reseal it with ultra grey. reseal the oil pan with ultra grey DON'T jack with the rear main oil seal. it almost NEVER fails, and the only one I have ever had to change was the one I replaced with a clutch kit and appearently misinstalled it on the way in. I NEVER change them anymore look at the oil pump (on front crank snout) if it is leaking, get the dealer gasket for it and replace it and the front main oil seal. it's good insurance for later. if it isn't leaking, LITFA after tear down, I prep all gasket surfaces except the heads but including the block, with fine 3M ROLOC discs. takes gasket junk right off and won't tear the aluminum up. just keep your drill moving and the disc flat. leaves a finely "sanded" gasket ready surface. Make sure you stuff clean shop towels in the intake holes and cylinder bores before doing this. I will usually very carefully clean off the carbon ring at the edge of the cylinder at this time with a fine. knife and some oil. wipe out the cylinders with a clean rag or shop towel and slather a little clean motor oil back on the cylinder walls before installing heads invest in a good torque wrench and torque to spec, don't over torque the head bolts and make sure they are clean and dry and dip the threads in oil before reinstalling. Edited June 19, 2012 by Ricearu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Here is what I do. I buy a complete engine re-seal kit and timing belt kit from domestic gaskets all the stuff is NTN, NSK, GMB...which is the same as what Suby uses. Wow - those kits are CHEAP! I paid about $210 for the Subaru kit - which comes with the proper HGs but not the rocker cover gaskets. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Thiss will get you guys going i use avinoinic form a gasket on evry headgasket i do always not to help it seal witch it do's but to insalate the gasket from the heat and vibrations so it holds up the gasket materials cant hold up to the vibrations and will tear the coatings off. I will never put a subaru headgasket on dry ever have done more than 60 headgasket jobs thiss year and all no comebacks or problems. But have had to redo many that were poorly done and headgaskets failed right after being done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Thiss will get you guys going i use avinoinic form a gasket on evry headgasket i do always not to help it seal witch it do's but to insalate the gasket from the heat and vibrations so it holds up the gasket materials cant hold up to the vibrations and will tear the coatings off. I will never put a subaru headgasket on dry ever have done more than 60 headgasket jobs thiss year and all no comebacks or problems. But have had to redo many that were poorly done and headgaskets failed right after being done Oooo - that sounds like it might be my experience Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thiss will get you guys going i use avinoinic form a gasket on evry headgasket i do always not to help it seal witch it do's but to insalate the gasket from the heat and vibrations so it holds up the gasket materials cant hold up to the vibrations and will tear the coatings off. I will never put a subaru headgasket on dry ever have done more than 60 headgasket jobs thiss year and all no comebacks or problems. But have had to redo many that were poorly done and headgaskets failed right after being done Thank you..Thats what I was trying say..but no one wants to believe me. Im me hey Ivan its not like we know what were talking about or anything, considering we both have Shops (well I did until last week.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 after tear down, I prep all gasket surfaces except the heads but including the block, with fine 3M ROLOC discs. takes gasket junk right off and won't tear the aluminum up. just keep your drill moving and the disc flat. leaves a finely "sanded" gasket ready surface. Make sure you stuff clean shop towels in the intake holes and cylinder bores before doing this. Thats going to kick you in the butt someday. When working with aluminum you have to just use a razor blade, brake clean, PB blaster, and some emery cloth with a little elbow grease. Using the quick and fast "whizzy wheels" even if there the 3M plastic bristle kind that are not supposed to take away/deform metal will, eventually. Heck I use both kinds for mild grinding applications. So if it will do that to a surface, I don't care how much skill and or precaution one takes, it still will make a flat surface not flat any more. And messing with the block to head surface is not something I want to screw up or with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 i have seen 25 dead engines cause of rotery tools takeing to mutch material off and the abrasives find there way into the oil and wipe berrings i have seen as mutch as 6 thow ground off when I put the block halfs on the planer you can realy see the damage mostly around the barrels on the lower side. Roto disks are for cast only and even then they are engine killers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 i have seen 25 dead engines cause of rotery tools takeing to mutch material off and the abrasives find there way into the oil and wipe berrings i have seen as mutch as 6 thow ground off when I put the block halfs on the planer you can realy see the damage mostly around the barrels on the lower side. Roto disks are for cast only and even then they are engine killers So in my case where I used them and put it back together to find a bad seal, what do I do now? I was planning on pulling the heads off again, getting them pressure tested and checking their and the block's flatness with a machine shop straight edge. If the block is out - what then? Would have I have to split the block, pull the pistons out and have the block shaved? Would that affect the piston clearance? Could I do it without having the block split?! I definately want to know why my job failed but then need to know what to do about it..... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Using the quick and fast "whizzy wheels" even if there the 3M plastic bristle kind that are not supposed to take away/deform metal will, eventually. Heck I use both kinds for mild grinding applications. So if it will do that to a surface, I don't care how much skill and or precaution one takes, it still will make a flat surface not flat any more. And messing with the block to head surface is not something I want to screw up or with i agree to a point. those wheels are dangerous...but the same applies to razor blades - those easily gouge aluminum (i've done it). both can help - both can harm....comes down to the user...and most users are probably apt to go overboard more on the discs than blades. i think there's too many variables to blame something specific. EJ25's simply fail too often. and they re-fail too often. the engines are expensive, hard to find, and encourage folks to dig in for the first time. and given how many blown, failed, overheated, abused, and battered EJ25's are out there getting first headgasket attempts or flipped by shady mechanics (i know one right now trying to fix one - he bought cam pulleys from me - i would not want that car), i think it's hard to discern what is actually the fault of a tool or blatant disregard from lazy, cheap, and low quality jokers trying to make a buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 plane heads for shure make shure its not a unrelated to headgasket problem have seen some 2.2 s leak where the block halfs are sealed by the red oring and dumps coolant into pan what was your engine doing ? after head job if gasket failed agian you whould see the damage on the gasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 So in my case where I used them and put it back together to find a bad seal, what do I do now?you should start your own thread first or PM him or post a link in here if you already did. cluttering up this thread will get confusing...it's not even about the same kind of motor you have. *what* Subaru gasket did you use? if it's a SOHC Ej25 and you installed the Subaru supplied gasket - that's the same gasket the car came with - the same gasket that failed the first time. i would have used Subaru's turbo gasket - it's a direct swap and those motors don't have headgasket issues, it's an MLS gasket. if it's a DOHC EJ25 you should use the 610 gasket (last three digits of the part number) - an updated gasket. no point in reinstalling the same gasket that's prone to failure to begin with...though it should hold longer that it appears yours might have. i have heard of the cylinder sleeves walking due to prior overheats...i'm not sure how to test that but it would be nice to make sure that's not the case for you since that's essentially not properly repairable. wonder how often Ivansimports has seen that - have you? i haven't yet but other folks that do tons of Subaru's (GD) has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I see it so mutch i came up with my own term { cly walk ] creates low areas around the bottom of the cly that repeatedly fails because its worn down lower than rest of block the barrels actualy move back and forth and wear down the aluminuim as i said before thiss is realy apperant when you surface the block have had some that the barrel is 6 thow lower than outside surfaces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 sorry missed the point yes have seen two 2.2 enginges have the cly turn so you could not get pin out and the cly had rotated about a 1/4 turn there was no way to fix without reboring with new liners it do's happen but very rare have only seen two out of hundreds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I have started a new thread as suggested. I answered questions there. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=134065 Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 i agree to a point. those wheels are dangerous...but the same applies to razor blades - those easily gouge aluminum (i've done it). both can help - both can harm....comes down to the user...and most users are probably apt to go overboard more on the discs than blades. I gauged aluminum a few times..luckily not on a "critical" surface. What I learned was to pull the blade backwards and not try to "shave" material off by going forward. This seems to work well. Extreme caution and care need to be used. As I am sure that those of use that have had to learn the hard way..now realize. :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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