so i have an 87 gl hatch and my brakes are being tempermental. There was a leak in the Hillholder but that has been fixed. Now i am clueless as to why even though i have bled the brakes 3 times, the brakes stilldont grab till the pedal hits the floor. Any ideas? please and thank you.

You still havent got all the air out.

Your action of replacing the hill holder pulled some nice fat air bubble into all of your lines. You won't likely be able to push those bubbles out the bottom. You might try pumping on the brakes to force air bubbles out into the reservoir and keep the reservoir filled. It took me a lot of pumping and when I finally got it to a point that I felt that I could stop the vehicle but they were still slightly soft, I left it and let the remaining air bubbles work themselves out the top. The air bubbles did eventually work themselves out the top.

nope.. hopefully the line isnt cracked but my crappy flare wrenches only allowed them to be tightened so far withou worry of stripping the nut on one line.

you might have to bleed the MC if the reservoir went dry. you will have to remove the brake lines and plug the hole with your finger to get it going.

 

Try depressing the clutch when bleeding the rear brakes.

I wonder if the air is caught in the hill holder? Maybe try bleeding with the nose in the air, and press the clutch as Miles suggests.

bleed the master cylinder, bleed the calipers in proper order, tap on the calipers to free up any trapped bubbles

What everyone else said. Also, If you wait like 15 seconds between pushes when you are bleeding brakes, it decreases the turbulence in the line, and allows the bubbles to reform into bigger ones.

Motive PRESSURE bleeder?

 

Very handy when air gets in the lines. Better than all the little pulses from pumping which can cause bubbles.

 

Much more effective than "sucking" devices where the air expands much more than the fluid being sucked.

 

Buy/borrow/rent one - and the correct adapter.

Old trick I use a washed out 600ML Coke bottle and fill it with brake fluid when upended into the master cylinder it will not all run out but will keep the fluid level topped up as it only flows to keep the level the same.

Then fit a drain line and open the bleed nipple and gravity will do the rest with the difference in height allowing a pressure difference,This is very usefull for when you think about it with an older cehicle the travel of the master cylinder piston assembly may be say 20mm and will leave a slight wear lip at that point,When you suddenly start to pump the brakes to bleed them and the seals on the master cylinder piston travel past the normal point of travel you can damage the seals and they will not bleed the air out.

 

This is why mechanics use either gravity bleeding or vacuum or pressure bleeding systems rather than the old pump the brakes method.

It is very hard trying to explain to a customer that the brakes that worked OK when they dropped the car off now need replacing because you tried to bleed the brakes to flush old dirty fluid and killed the original seals by pushing them past a wear ridge inside the master cylinder inpumping the Brakes,They just don't understand and think you are trying to shaft them.

 

This is why mechanics use either gravity bleeding or vacuum or pressure bleeding systems rather than the old pump the brakes method.

It is very hard trying to explain to a customer that the brakes that worked OK when they dropped the car off now need replacing because you tried to bleed the brakes to flush old dirty fluid and killed the original seals by pushing them past a wear ridge inside the master cylinder inpumping the Brakes,They just don't understand and think you are trying to shaft them.

 

 

What he said, thats my vote.

Actually this is supposed to be the boys project with a little help. He found that one of the lines is leaking from the master and causing it to only build so far and go to crud again. He has yet to update his post or look for the line it has been 5 days so here is the update.

 

A big thanks to all who tried to help. I do have a gravity bleeder but was afraid to use it for fear of making a huge mess.

Suggestion, the car is old enough anyway, think about replacing the MC.

 

Also i gravity bled both my justy and outback. I didnt need anything really aside from a hose. I just opened up the bleeder and let our evil overlord Physics take over. Went faster then I thought it would, and on both cars i Replaced calipers.

That was first followed by by-passing the HH then when we still couldn't get pressure had to start looking for leaks. Which turns out to be the line closest to the front of the car which is maybe 8" long...The frickin easy one.

Good you solved the problem, remember the gravity bleeding method so you avoid the seal issue in future just in case,while it is obviously preferable to fit a new Master cylinder people are not always able to budget for one when it fails like that. Best not to be caught out if possible.