Subaru_dude Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 This is an '84 DL 2wd with a 4 speed trans and a Weberized 1.8 When I first start it in the morning, I hear water rushing through the heater core like it's low on coolant. It started when the temp got below zero, and my coolant turned slushy. It didn't completely freeze, before I started it I checked my makeshift coolant reservoir and the coolant was still pretty liquid, just sorda thick and slushy. When I started it is when I heard the noise for the first time. I let the temperature outside warm up and checked my coolant and it wasn't low. That was about a week ago, checked it again while parked in a parking lot with the nose pointing uphill and it's still full. So... what causes air to magically get into the heater core? I know with EA82s you gotta get them on a really steep hill to get all the air out, do I need to do this with an EA81? I noticed the clattering under the hood the first couple of days after getting my exhaust fixed. It was too loud to hear before, but now it's noticeable. It happens after driving for ten miles or so on the interstate at high rpms, like 4k or so for several miles. To me it sounds exactly like the timing is too advanced, but I've got it set at just about 16deg btdc. It's never gotten hot and the temp gauge has always stayed pretty steady. Today though, going uphill at a little over half throttle at around 4k, my temp gauge jumped up as I was watching it. Didn't jump all the way to the top, just about 3/4 of the way and hung there for about five seconds and jumped back down but not all the way where it usually settles, just a tad above halfway. To me, this sounds like I'm low on coolant. The rest of the way home it didn't settle down just below the halfway mark like it usually does and when I'd give it gas it would get warm quicker. I pulled into a parking lot and got under the hood and revved it up pretty good looking for any leaks, none to be found. No coolant smell either. Not from the exhaust or anywhere under the hood. So, what's the hypothesis? Worst case scenario exhaust gases are escaping the combustion chamber into the coolant right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Well first off, timing is way too advanced. 8 degrees IIRC. Next I would draining and refill your cooling system and make sure you get at least 50/50 in there. That's why it slushed. Too much water. Next, pull your belt off and see if the clatter goes away. I've seen old water pumps brake the impeller with frozen or near frozen coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Well first off, timing is way too advanced. 8 degrees IIRC. Next I would draining and refill your cooling system and make sure you get at least 50/50 in there. That's why it slushed. Too much water. Next, pull your belt off and see if the clatter goes away. I've seen old water pumps brake the impeller with frozen or near frozen coolant. The clatter has been there a while, and with a Weber it is recommended that you run 15-20. And the coolant is one gallon coolant, one gallon water and then topped off the rest of the way with coolant. It shouldn't ever get that cold again (hopefully) so I won't worry about it. "It happens after driving for ten miles or so on the interstate at high rpms," I think I'll pass on removing the belt and driving down the interstate for ten miles to see if the noise is gone. Somehow I don't think I would make it ten miles without a functioning water pump. Edit: After quick search, it appears I'm lucky to have a running engine. 20deg btdc is only for BUILT EA81s.... Edited January 15, 2014 by Subaru_dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 8* advanced will make it pretty gutless with a Weber. 15-20* sounds about right to me... As long as it isn't pinging, your not hurting anything. When I'm setting up custom timing on a carbed motor, I always go heavy on the advance and then dial it back as needed. Best case, sounds like you may just have a stubborn air pocket in your heater core. If your getting combustion gases in the coolant system, your gonna be losing coolant(not always consistently). I had an EA81 that would only push combustion gases in the coolant system when on the freeway or pulling up a hill and it started really really slow, then it got really really bad. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 8* advanced will make it pretty gutless with a Weber. 15-20* sounds about right to me... As long as it isn't pinging, your not hurting anything. When I'm setting up custom timing on a carbed motor, I always go heavy on the advance and then dial it back as needed. Best case, sounds like you may just have a stubborn air pocket in your heater core. If your getting combustion gases in the coolant system, your gonna be losing coolant(not always consistently). I had an EA81 that would only push combustion gases in the coolant system when on the freeway or pulling up a hill and it started really really slow, then it got really really bad. Josh I plan on replacing my heater core hoses as they are pretty rotten, I'll be sure I pull up onto a nice steep hill and get ALL of the air out. It appears my alternator is what has been making all that racket. Removed my belt to double check the alt and water pump and it had a tiny bit of play in and out. Replaced the belt and got it good and tight because it was a little loose before, and the clattering is worse than ever. I am concerned about how that air pocket got in there, it happened right after it dipped down to zero degrees and slushed my coolant. Hope it didn't hurt the headgaskets... And yes I dialed the timing to 10deg btdc and it's pretty darn gutless and lurches while accelerating. Think I'll advance it some more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 the timing of the motor doesn't relate to the carburetor. you may be able to play with it a few degrees, but I think you should recheck your timing. the reason for the 20 degrees advance was because the EA82 was supposedly designed with fuel injection in mind and a 20 deg base time. they used up some carbs on them and the theory was that you could jack it up to 20 deg even if you had a carb model. The EA81 was designed as it is, and was always setup for a carburetor so its base of 8 deg should be where it is, plus or minus only a couple of degree's. having the timing off you can still lose power at certain amounts of throttle even if its not pinging. most of this info is 3rd hand, its just what I have read or heard others say. I run my EA82 at 20, but all the really well running EA81's Ive worked on had 8 deg. they had plenty of power and ran well at 8 deg so if you turn your timing down to that and it runs like crap then you need to retune or fix whatever else is broken. all that said, it doesn't help your heater issue. id probably flush the heater core out, and as said above drain it and replace with some known good coolant. coolant does get old as well, so if you haven't changed it out in a few years its probably due for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 most of this info is 3rd hand, its just what I have read or heard others say. I run my EA82 at 20, but all the really well running EA81's Ive worked on had 8 deg. they had plenty of power and ran well at 8 deg so if you turn your timing down to that and it runs like crap then you need to retune or fix whatever else is broken. This really is good advice, but I'm just going to be lazy and dial it in at 15 and say the hell with it. If it cuts it's lifespan down, oh freakin well. It's gotten me around for a couple of years, it's about ready to be retired anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I am not following the clattering noise description very well. I don't rate pinging as clattering. Check the alternater pulley to verify that it is not lose. The fan behind the pulley makes alot of noise when they are loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 I am not following the clattering noise description very well. I don't rate pinging as clattering. Check the alternater pulley to verify that it is not lose. The fan behind the pulley makes alot of noise when they are loose. My definition of clattering must differ because from what I've heard on youtube vids, pre-detonation sounds like a clattering noise to me (unless pinging is different). HOWEVER, I believe the noise might be my alternator. There's a very slight amount of play when I pull outwards on the pully without the belt on it and when I tightened my belt, it started making quite a bit more noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 sounds like a loose baffle in exhaust or loose cat converter if you have one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 It sounds a little more substantial than the typical exhaust baffle, and it's coming from under the hood for sure. In other news, got the correct size idle jet in the mail today. Installed it, retimed it to 8deg btdc, and followed the proper procedures for adjusting the fuel mixture. Runs like it did at 20deg btdc with a rich mixture. LIKE A RAPED APE. I'm happy now, and I'll be even happier when I get my heater hoses replaced and replace my alternator. I'll be ecstatic if that darn clattering is the alternator I'm about to replace with the Maxima alt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Huh.... 8 degrees with a properly jetted carb.... Go figure. Anywhoo, you said you first noticed it on start up so I ignored the driving part. I most certainly was not suggesting you drive without the belt on. I mean, if you don't like the car..... lol It's a common test for pinpointing accessory noises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The under the hood noise starts after about ten miles. Is this the same time that the electric cooling fan at the radiator turns on? Perhaps the plastic fan blades are rubbing on a foreign object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 ^Hmmm hadn't thought about that, I'll check into that too but I'm pretty sure the fans aren't kicking on until the temp gauge at least reaches a little over halfway. The temp is typically right below the marker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Ok replaced the alternator and the noise is still there. Sounds kinda like there's a marble in the driver side valve train now... but from what I've read the EA81 hydraulic lifters can be pretty noisy for various reasons, but not the same reasons EA82 valves become noisy. I will try cleaning the check valve, and having a look inside tomorrow and updating. One last question, will it hurt it to drive it making so much noise? I need this piece to drive me 450 miles on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 get a long screw driver. let the engine run and place your ear against the handle while you touch different parts of the motor. you will clearly hear the sound your trying to find if you probe the right area. listen to your alternator, power steering, water pump, etc. you can tell a ton about the condition of parts doing this, even if the noise isn't within hearing range normally you can hear grinds and whines. find the source before you replace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Wonder Wedge Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 What oil are you running? 10w40? In this super cold, my ea82 clatters for a few seconds until oil starts flowing.. Um going to switch back to a 5w40 and just deal with the oil leaks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Pulled the valve cover off about fifteen minutes after driving... that crap is DRY. Doesn't look like there's been any oil in there for a while. So... where is this check valve I hear about? I can't get my head in there to see anything really. Engine is still in car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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