Legback0203 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I have an 02 outback limited with an ej25 and manual transmission. Recently the motor blew in it and the car is in really nice shape so I am for sure going to replace it. I did the clutch recently so I am familiar with getting the motor in and out of the car. What I would like to know is what it would take to put the ez30 into it. A friend of mine is selling one for reasonable money and I also have a 03 legacy that could benefit from a parts car. So if I have a complete car to steal from what does the job entail? Manual trans is staying in the outback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) You'll need donor engine harness, donor ECM, etc. Anything you touch, LABEL it If donor is an auto, need to figure out if the 2.5 flywheel will not only bolt to a 3.0 crank, but shares the same balance as a 2.5 engine, and will your clutch be adequately suited to the power level of a 3.0L or not. You'll need a throwout bearing for the 3.0L as well. If donor is complete, check if the radiator is drastically different (core thickness, shroud) including hose length and orientation compared to yours. Verify if your fans will flow enough CFM to keep radiator cool or not, otherwise take his, especially if they allow more clearance. You'll need exhaust manifolds and preferably as much of the Y section as possible. If the 3.0L has three O2 sensors (2 upstream, one down), make sure you get them with the exhaust and have the donor's section of harness for them. I know the EZ36 has a slightly different alternator and it's plug is different, so keep this in mind if he only sells you the long block w/o accessories. Amperage on donor should be same or close to your OB's alt. Might need to connect a custom connector to oil pressure switch and alt to get dummy lights in dash working. You'l need the 3.0L's motor mounts. Dunno if power steering is different between the 2 cars or not, so keep this in mind if something is drastically different with reservoir, bolting location, etc. Dunno if the extra weight from the 3.0L was a concern for a heavier duty power steering set up or not. Front might sit a tad lower and might dive more on stops or bounce more on bumps/dips in the road. I'd suggest upgrading your front brakes to accommodate the weight AND performance increase. Should snag the donor's front sway bar as well. If his rear bar diameter is thicker than your OB bar, swap that too (trust me, you don't want it screeching on 25 mph turns because the bars are too thin). And obvious stuff like his air filter box, possibly his cruise control set up unless yours can be adapted; if EVAP system is drastically different, consider swapping or wait and see if you get a CEL or not; his fuel pump will be needed too (check fuse rating for his vs. yours). Find out if both cars use the same sending unit or not as that contains the fuel level float. It might read differently, or be adjusted differently, etc. That's top of head stuff for a basic engine swap from a completely different engine to another. Haven't done this myself, but should give you an idea of what you'll be in for. Others with more knowledge can hopefully simplify or verify some short-cuts or parts that are interchangeable. GL Edited November 16, 2015 by Bushwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legback0203 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Thank you for the thorough posting in such a timely manner. I am purchasing his entire car so harness and stuff shouldn't be a problem. I am in America where they didn't offer 3.0 manual and another thread I found suggests that there will be engine codes considering the manual transmission application. Can you confirm or deny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I've never done this swap. I have however done auto to manual swaps in other cars before and idle speed was an issue once manual was put in. If they are saying CEL issues with manual, it's probably true but I do not know for certain. If you can tolerate driving an auto, maybe consider swapping that in and putting the manual in other car. Remove clutch pedal and either have a skinny brake pedal or swap those and *presto* auto appearing pedals. Unless there's some insider trickery to get the auto-powered engine's ECM to play nice with the manual, you might need a piggy back system or stand alone ECU as no one seems to be able to reverse engineer the Subaru ECM yet. My Saab is the only thing I've reflashed (was similar enough to GM so people were able to reverse that and offer open source hard and software) and that had parameters you could alter for manual or auto. With everything electronic, it's a blessing and a curse. Hopefully someone else more intimate with these can give you a better idea of the bugs you'll be facing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legback0203 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Thanks again for the info. I've heard from most subarus are pretty swappable but you've put things in perspective. I still want more info on the subject if anyone has any experience with this swap but as far as the auto trans is concerned I would rather put an ej back into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 The ez30 will just drop right into your car, afterall, it was meant to have it there! The 2.5 clutch, flywheel, TOB, etc will bolt to the ez30 and bolt to the manual transmission no problem. You'll have to use the ez30 radiator because it has two coolant ports on the top, not just one like the 2.5. The only thing that's really super different mechanically is the AC compressor from the 2.5 won't fit the 3.0, you'l have to make custom lines or .... Just swap EVERYTHING from the 3.0 outback to your outback. It's the same shell, so if you swap EVERYTHING over, wiring, dashboard stuff that's different (I dunno if the HVAC stuff is different, it is if the 3.0 has auto climate), gauges (3.0 has a different tach signal), etc. It should just work . Once all the wiring is swapped over, do an auto to manual swap, ie. ground out whatever pin it is on the ecu and wire the NSS to the manual transmission. There's plenty of documentation on swapping 3.0 cars to manual. A friend of mine has done this swap and IIRC he ran into an issue with the cruise control, you need to keep the manual trans cruise computer, and something to do with the emissions system... I can't remember the exact details there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legback0203 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Thanks for the info. His is the vdc so it does have climate control. Your suggesting taking it as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Your options are: swap everything to your outback, and you'll essentially have a factory 6 cylinder car, just manual swap the donor car because it's already a 6 cylinder, or cut and splice all the wiring and make it somehow work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Can he just unbolt the crossmembers with engine attached and just roll the donor's over to his and bolt that up? Would that save him some time vs. yanking the engines? Also, is the clutch for the EJ25 going to hold up OK to the extra power? What throw out bearing will he use? An EJ25's? Figured it's worth asking to help him out in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Can he just unbolt the crossmembers with engine attached and just roll the donor's over to his and bolt that up? Would that save him some time vs. yanking the engines? Also, is the clutch for the EJ25 going to hold up OK to the extra power? What throw out bearing will he use? An EJ25's? Figured it's worth asking to help him out in advance Read my post. And no, dropping crossmembers isn't gonna save time. Swapping the engines is the easy part, making it run is the hard part. The ez30 will just drop right into your car, afterall, it was meant to have it there! The 2.5 clutch, flywheel, TOB, etc will bolt to the ez30 and bolt to the manual transmission no problem. You'll have to use the ez30 radiator because it has two coolant ports on the top, not just one like the 2.5. The only thing that's really super different mechanically is the AC compressor from the 2.5 won't fit the 3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 The electrical is more complex to run a manual and keep the CELL off with the EZ30. I'm still trying to figure it out as I live in a place where I have DEQ and need to keep the ECU and TCU happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Read my post. And no, dropping crossmembers isn't gonna save time. Swapping the engines is the easy part, making it run is the hard part. I did read your post. Just because pressure plate bolts up and physically fits, doesn't answer if it's going to start slipping on him if he tromps on it more than once. Do they use the same rated pressure plate + clutch in the STi? Or is that uprated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I did read your post. Just because pressure plate bolts up and physically fits, doesn't answer if it's going to start slipping on him if he tromps on it more than once. Do they use the same rated pressure plate + clutch in the STi? Or is that uprated? You asked if the TOB and stuff would work... are you doing the swap for the OP? An STi clutch setup won't work because it's entirely different. I hate to break it, but if you've never done this swap I'm not what advise you're trying to add besides ask questions related to your interests, not the OP's query. I've worked on several h6 cars, drives swaps, and helped with them. Caboobaroo brings up a good point that they're hard to run with a manual. My friend has one in a forester and is fighting with the CEL to pass emissions, he's a mechanic so I think he finally just fudged it through... But there's a fairly comprehensive thread SOMEWHERE about how to make it work right. I can't for the life of me find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) If it's a TCU issue with the CEL, you can use a microcontroller and a few resistors and such to mimmick a transmission functioning.. If you can mimmick a neutral position, that works in a lot of cars too. It's not looking for trans output then.. not sure about Subaru. Edited November 18, 2015 by matt167 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 phil swapped an H6 EZ30 into his XT6 years ago on subaruxt.com, check out what he did over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legback0203 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Thanks to all for the help and discussions on the topic. I would like to see info on CEL stuff but it isn't mandatory because I don't deal with emissions in my area. Also I hear it could be a problem with cruise control. I thought it worth clarifying too that the donor is an 02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legback0203 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Also forgot to mention because it seems to come up a lot. Based off info I've found ez30 weighs less than ej251 so suspension and brakes aren't a concern(even though brakes are already drilled and slotted). Weights are 240 and 264 dry respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Also forgot to mention because it seems to come up a lot. Based off info I've found ez30 weighs less than ej251 so suspension and brakes aren't a concern(even though brakes are already drilled and slotted). Weights are 240 and 264 dry respectively. No way, a fully dressed ez30 weighs in well over 300lbs, an ej25 is probably in the 250 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Search for a board member named Dyne over on the 2.5RS board. Lots of good info on the wiring but like I said, unless you build a fun box to mimic the transmission to keep the TCU happy and not pop a CEL, you will always have a constant code(s) for the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legback0203 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Well it sounds like a job that is more than possible. Regardless of the few common problems I'm convinced it's the way to go. I'll start a new post when the project begins but it may have to wait till spring as he is considering keeping the car through the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 here is Phil's install into his XT6: http://www.subaruxt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8805&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=EZ30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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