Legacy 2012

[Boofhead]

Hi,

From my research I've noticed the pre 2012 models had the EJ25 and resulted in head gasket, timing belt, water pump issues. so I specifically looked for a 2012 as it had the FB25.  Took a test drive of a Japanese import 2012. Car was great, paper work is all in order and more than happy to join the subie club just one question.

When I popped the hood, I noticed it had a timing belt and not a timing chain, however the build plate on the passenger B pillar said FB25.  I have done some more research and found replacement engines out of japanese imports online that seem to have the engine code FB25A which have timing belts not chains. I have not been able to find any information on an FB25A only the FB25B, and everything on the FB25B states it has a timing chain.

So I'm confused, was the FB25A used in japanese models with a timing belt before they exported later models as the FB25B with a timing chain ?  If so does this mean the FB25A does not rectify the earlier issues of the EJ25 ?

Thanks

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Boofhead

[idosubaru]

8 hours ago, Boofhead said:

Hi,

From my research I've noticed the pre 2012 models had the EJ25 and resulted in head gasket, timing belt, water pump issues. so I specifically looked for a 2012 as it had the FB25.  Took a test drive of a Japanese import 2012. Car was great, paper work is all in order and more than happy to join the subie club just one question.

When I popped the hood, I noticed it had a timing belt and not a timing chain, however the build plate on the passenger B pillar said FB25.  I have done some more research and found replacement engines out of japanese imports online that seem to have the engine code FB25A which have timing belts not chains. I have not been able to find any information on an FB25A only the FB25B, and everything on the FB25B states it has a timing chain.

So I'm confused, was the FB25A used in japanese models with a timing belt before they exported later models as the FB25B with a timing chain ?  If so does this mean the FB25A does not rectify the earlier issues of the EJ25 ?

Thanks

 

 

If you see FB25 then it's an FB25.  US market 2012 Outbacks have EJ25, 2013 is the first year for FB25 outbacks. 

If you see a belt visually - it's just the serpentine belt - for the A/C and power steering. That's not a timing belt.  The timing belt itself is not visible by looking at engines for sale or popping the hood. 

Early FB25's have oil consumption issues which is a much larger/more expensive repair than headgaskets/timing belts.  (EJ25's have never had water pump issues).  You also can't diagnose wether a new to you FB25 is consuming oil or not.  You'll know after a few months of driving.

Looking up engines for 2012's is confusing for a variety of reasons:
1. 2012 US is timing belt, 2013 is timing chains

2. Juggling different markets: Japanese engines and availability across model years varies from US market. The JDM suppliers generally keep track of which JDM engines fit which US market, so I assume that'll be the case for you as well. 

3. A 2012 Outback with 6 cylinder engine does have a timing chain. 

4. model year and manufacturer year can sometimes cause confusion too. 

 

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Either way - the head gaskets on the belt motors are more reliable. The FB's are mixing coolant and oil and we are seeing oil in the radiators. Just did HG's on a 2013 with 82k on it. Oil in the radiator. Often people don't catch it in time and it results in bottom end failure. 

If anything the HG problems have gotten significantly worse with the FB's. The engines are almost entirely glued together and are labor intensive to take apart and put together since so much cleaning of liquid gasket maker is involved. Honestly we prefer the EJ's in every case. The FB engines are absolute trash IMO. The early one's burn oil due to piston ring issues, the turbo variants like to lose piston skirts and usually trash the cylinder bore, the leak from the timing chain cover and destroy the front AFR sensor, and then there's the ECU issues - they can randomly "learn" a cam advance angle that they can't unlearn and then you have to replace all the timing sprockets, the cam sensors, and the ECU plus program the immobilizer...... it's an ABSOLUTE $hit show. 

GD

[tylertrend]

Holy lord, sounds like the excrement has really hit the recirculator at SOA engineering. I never cared for the FB's and how buzzy they sound (or the fact they are under square engines) but our 2.0 went over 130k with no internal issues. I think I'll stick with my SUS and its comparatively minor problems though.

[Boofhead]

Well at least I avoid the turbo issue as this is NA (I went and bought it), it has 72,000kmn on it (44,000 miles) and was only 10k NZD or 6500 USD, which is a good deal here.

The city I live in has a lot of stop start traffic, and one issue that has occurred twice now,

1. I come to a stop with the auto stop turned on, the car stops.

2. When I go to take off again the car won't start, every light on the dash lights up. 

3. I have to put the car back into park and restart the engine manually.

The car has a 6 month warranty from the dealer, but I would like to know someone else's opinion on what this issue could be before I take it to them and are confronted with their fluff justification.

Regarding for oil in the radiator, how often should be checking for this issue ?

Thanks

[idosubaru]

Run your VIN or call Subaru and ask if all of your recalls and TSBs are up to date. 

Good grief. That’s terrible. What a wretched safety issue that is. 

I haven’t seen the auto stop/start feature but that’s unnerving if it’s inoperable.

If someone doesn’t know and the sellers 6 month warranty is questionable or they don’t respond well I’d consider having Subaru diagnose it.  I would bet they can diagnose this very quickly and probably know the one or two things it’s likely to be without even looking at it. I’m sure they’ve seen it before. 

[GeneralDisorder]

I would turn it back in and not deal with any of that foolishness. Buy a Toyota or Lexus if you want something newer that has a hope of being reliable is my suggestion - do your homework carefully on any model you consider from any manufacturer though..... The FB cars are garbage in my opinion. 

Or do as many of us have done - forget newer cars and get something from an era when things were made to be repaired and complexity being the enemy of reliability wasn't such an issue. 

GD