rubbie Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 This one has me stumped. My '87 GL hatchback (EA82 with SPFI) just up and died, it'll roll over endlessly but no power comes from the coil. There is a constant clicking as I roll it over, turns out it's coming from the blue connector against the steering column, hidden behind the ECU. I'm pretty sure that is the ignition relay. Do I have a bad relay, or is the problem with the inner workings of the distributor, as my Haynes manual suggests? Any feedback would be nice. This is a work car, and I need it back soon. Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Have you checked your T-belts? If you popped the RH one (as you look at engine), disty no go around, therefore no spark. Pull disty cap, crank engine over, see if rotor turns. Hmmm.. Would this be the type of disty that has that little screw for the rotor that likes to come loose/fall out? Could be broken wire for the sensor/pick-up unit in the disty. Not real sure what your vehicle has in there, (more of an EA-81 type here). Just some things to check................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 First check everything Tom says. Esp if the rotor is turning when rolling it over. It could also be the ignition amplifier. The transistor located on the coil bracket under the coil. Hold the coil wire very close to a ground (1/16") and see if a small spark occurs when rolling it over. To assist in your trouble shooting you might throw together one of these It connects from the positive battery terminal to the small spade connector terminal on the back of the starter. (remove factory connector first) Good luck hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbie Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Thanks for the suggestions, here's some more info. There's no spark at the plug. There's also no spark when I connected the plug straight to the coil (and grounded it ). I did the T-belt check, sure enough the disty spins, everything's okay there. The rotor does have that little screw, but it's fine. There's power at the positive terminal of the coil. There's no power at the negative pole, unless I disconnect the disty wire from it. According to Haynes, that means I have a defective "ignition control unit" inside the distributor. Big bummer if that's the case. The thing I wonder about is the clicking from the ignition relay under the dash. Does that mean the relay is the problem, a much easier fix, or is it just trying to do its job? I *hope* I can get my little beasty on the road by Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 If the ig amp is bad you will see no spark across the plug. You must hold the coil wire 1/16" or less to see it. The signal from The ECU is not large enough to fire the coil properly, thus the amplifier. The coil bracket must also have a good ground. You must hold the coil wire 1/16" or less to see it. Haynes should stick to making underware IMHO All SPFI and MPFI cars have the same ig amp IT is permently fastened to the coil bracket. As for the clicking relay are you sure one of the diagnostic connector is not plugged together. You could probe the ECU power feed and see if it plusates in time with the clicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Thanks for the suggestions, here's some more info. There's no spark at the plug. There's also no spark when I connected the plug straight to the coil (and grounded it ). I did the T-belt check, sure enough the disty spins, everything's okay there. The rotor does have that little screw, but it's fine. There's power at the positive terminal of the coil. There's no power at the negative pole, unless I disconnect the disty wire from it. According to Haynes, that means I have a defective "ignition control unit" inside the distributor. Big bummer if that's the case. The thing I wonder about is the clicking from the ignition relay under the dash. Does that mean the relay is the problem, a much easier fix, or is it just trying to do its job? I *hope* I can get my little beasty on the road by Monday. Since you have power at coil+ but not negative,it means the coil is grounded all the time(instead of a pulsed ground).The power transistor being shorted to ground is the most likely cause.ECU could be supplying a bad signal to the transistor, but I doubt it. I don`t think there is any failure mode of the crank angle sensor inside the disty that would give the symptoms you describe. If it is indeed the ignition relay clicking,power will be intermittent at coil+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbie Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Thanks guys, I'll get the ol' multimeter out and check when I get off work tonite. I'll let you know what I find. Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I am sorry but my FSM disagrees with Mr. Naru. The coil power does not come from the ig relay. I researched this before I posted. It is powered through fuse #11 which is controlled by the ig switch, not the relay. Checking at the ECU is one way to test if it is the ig relay. I also checked the coil on my car -> it indeed does show battery voltage on both terminals. Another possibility is the primary side of the coil could be open? A continuity check can verify this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 The coil power does not come from the ig relay. OOPS,I see you are correct. Another possibility is the primary side of the coil could be open? No,if the primary was open,voltage wouldn`t suddenly appear at coil negative w/the "disty" wire removed. Ignition relay faults don`t seem to coincide w/the coil voltage symptoms observed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 " No,if the primary was open,voltage wouldn`t suddenly appear at coil negative w/the "disty" wire removed." you are absolutely correct sir please excuse my blunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbie Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Okay, wonderful advisors, as the sun sets on another unproductive day I give you the results of my efforts. I cleaned up the coil-bracket grounds and the spade connectors for the ignition amp. There's now power at the coil negative terminal. The coil wire leading to the distributor doesn't spark at all when I turn it over, no juice there whatever. A new coil makes no difference. During all this, the ignition relay under-dash clicks as the engine turns over. If I turn the key almost but not quite to start, I hear the fuel-pump whine, and the ignition relay starts clicking. I checked the ECU wires for loose connections, everything's tight. I ran down to the junkyard and pulled another relay - no change with the new one, I should have guessed but had to try. My choices now, as I see it, are maybe still the ignition amp (the junkyard didn't have one), the distributor, or (gulp) the ECU. Any thoughts? Any way I can check these things to narrow it further? Thanks much. Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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